Letter Archives

My Life Has Been in Limbo for Years:

Have Benefited From Your Site:

May 22, 2007

Congratulations on having such a wonderful website. I learned a lot from it. My situation was a little different in that I was never a member of the Worldwide Church of God, but my life was profoundly affected by the free material that was sent to my home in the early eighties.

I've set up a small group here in Ireland to help other people who find themselves in similar circumstances. I have counselling experience and have studied many other religions over the last twenty years. If people do contact me here in Ireland or Europe I would be grateful if you would allow me to use your website as a link from which they could avail of your resources. I have benefited from your site more then you'll ever know and I'm sure that they will also.

Trusting that this e-mail meets with your kind consideration and approval,

Kind regards, --Pierce K., Ireland

I Question My Sanity and  Judgment:

May 25, 2007

My mother's parents attended Living Church of God a few times and were able to see right through it after a few visits and quit attending. We, on the other hand stayed in LCG another two years and went from there to another group. For a while we were angry at them for leaving what we thought was the "true faith" and tried to persuade them that they needed to get back into church, at which point they told us we were still mind controlled. Looking back, I can't understand why two very down to earth people who were not highly educated could see it and we could not. I consider myself and my husband to be intelligent people, but yet we were completely fooled by all this circus show. I am now questioning my sanity and my judgment on everything. If I was that blind for so long, how can I trust my judgments in the future, on anything? --Exiter

Comment: Many have these feelings after exiting a high demand group. See list of books: Understanding Mind Control / Recovering From Spiritual and Emotional Abuse and read our article: How to Recover After Exiting a Deceptive, Abusive Group.

Herbert Armstrong Used Mein Kampf as a Guide in Controlling People:

May 29, 2007

John Trechak (of Ambassador Report) called me often and once we talked about what they found in HWA's desk. It was a well read and marked copy of Mein Kampf and HWA used that as a guide in controlling the people in WWCG. A lot of that is documented in Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web.

I asked John about there being any Nazis in the WWCG because of the early writings of HWA about the World War II and Hitler, and also because of HWA's affiliation with Armand Hammer and Alger Hiss who signed him into the United Nations meeting in 1945. [Read this part in HWA's November 24, 1967 letter to Plain Truth subscribers where he boasts about how Alger Hiss signed his entry pass into that meeting.]  John said that the only Nazis that were in WWCG were Herman Hoeh's parents. He also told me they had been known to say, that since Hitler died, HWA and his WWCG was the closest thing to Communism that they could get.

Anyway, it was true that HWA was closely involved with both known Nazis and Communists. --H. Nelson, Former WCG member

Read: 2006 letter to ESN: Herbert Armstrong and His Communist Friends and 2004 letter: HWA Studied Hitler's Book, Mein Kampf. More links can be found under: Questioning HWA's background.

Fred Coulter Has Now Produced a Translation of the New Testament:

May 31, 2007

Fred Coulter has now produced a translation of the New Testament and is working on one for the Old Testament, with his particular spin to it. He has placed the books "in their right order." How he determined there was a right order is beyond me. --Exiter

WCG Inviting Wolves Into the Sheep Pen:

May 31, 2007

I have made up my mind that I am not going to be attending the July Conference for WCG pastors/elders. I was an elder in our church, but of last month we are no longer considered a "church." We were down to five members and HQ wanted us to become a separate "affiliated" church and send all our offerings into them and they would send us back 80% of it back, or we could just stop being a church. We decided we would stop being a "church." I don't even know if I am still an elder and I really don't care. We still meet every week as we were before, so nothing has really changed for us. None of us have been pleased with the direction the leadership in WCG has been taking us for some time, but now the church has really lost its mind by inviting wolves into the sheep pen. --U. S.

Involvement With LCG Breaks Up Loving Relationship:

June 1, 2007

I have been in love with a man I met 7 1/2 years ago. As we grew to know each other, he would tell me bits and pieces about a church he had joined after his divorce. This church had a schism and his congregation had fallen apart. He never named the church and led me to believe that he was not seriously involved in it previously.

Sixteen months ago he "found" Tomorrow's World on a network broadcast on cable. He kept it from me that he had contacted a leader from the Living Church of God and had set up a meeting with him.

From the moment he had this meeting, he was ready to give up a relationship that was committed, loving, and leading to marriage. The first contact he had told him flat out that I would probably never see "their" way. I was dismayed at how quickly the man I loved was being led away from me. I am no longer in a relationship with this man because he fell hook, line, and sinker for everything this cult told him. These "church leaders" and mentors were virtually wolves in sheep's clothing who prey on people who are already damaged somewhere in their lives and exploit these weaknesses. I have lost a sweet, caring, person who is now on his way to believing that he has found the "only true path to salvation." He lost his sense of humor, his ability to think or make decisions for himself and has left behind people who cared for him before he involved himself in this "church." --B. B.

I Witnessed HWA Fly Into Fits of Rage:

June 5, 2007

I personally witnessed Herbert Armstrong fly into fits of rage at Bible studies and even when giving sermons.

I recall seeing him walking around on the AC campus one time with some Japanese, and I was off in the distance with my camera and a telephoto lens photographing them, and I received a real dirty look from him.

I think anyone who was at Pasadena had to have seen his fits at times. --Bill Hohmann, author of Mystery of the Ages (a 2nd critical review)

Comment: Ministers often explained it away by telling us that it was just HWA's "zeal.

Very Frightened After Reading Living Church of God's Literature:

June 18, 2007

I am trying to return to God after many years getting involved in New Age and other horrible things, which effectively I think have resulted in God turning away from me. I have committed to God through Christ but still feel very much lost and cut off. It is though people just shun me and I feel terrible fear.

I started getting Tomorrow's World and booklets [from Living Church of God] and felt they turned me back to God, yet I feel great fear in being cast into the fiery lake.

I am quite frightened now and don't want to go back to God and Christ in fear, but only in love. Unfortunately, I am in fear and feel that I have to be baptized as it is as though the Holy Spirit has been taken away. It's like I have lost my soul and I am struggling constantly.

Can you give me any advice firstly whether there is a particular church that as far as possible teaches and keeps the word of God and Christ?

Secondly, I feel I must have attracted some evil entities around me with my involvement with New Age / Law of Attraction and all of that rubbish. Is there something I can do to remove that from me?

Lastly, I am still confused. I used to believe that Christ took all sins on the cross. Now I fear that is not the case as although he said that, my reading of Revelation, etc., seems to indicate that we will still be punished for committing sin after going to Christ.

I am worried because from my now reading of the Bible after being exposed to Tomorrow's World I am now committing a mortal sin ...

Anyway, if you can help someway with the above I would be grateful. I am scared for my soul and need something to help me feel the Holy Spirit again and know that God will allow me back.

Thank you. --R.

Comment: This person has received a personal response. It is very common for those who read literature from the totalistic WCG offshoots to have fear and doubts. One should investigate LCG and Roderick Meredith before joining his "church." For help with New Age/Occult issues, see Prayers for Freedom From Spiritual Strongholds.

Your Website Has Helped More People Than You'll Ever Know:

June 22, 2007

I think your website comes across as more credible than others that don't have the humble approach that you have taken. I believe that your ministry, done mostly through your site, is one that has probably helped more people than you'll ever know.

You helped me in two very important points:

1. I had accepted part of the blame for the abuse and you corrected me on that.

2. I had not recognized the post traumatic stress syndrome and you pointed out that I was suffering from it.

How many others have you helped in priceless ways? I think you'll know the answer to that in the hereafter. --Former WCG member, Florida

Mother-in-Law Was in WCG; Still Brainwashed:

June 24, 2007

Hello,

I'm writing in regards to my mother-in-law. She belonged to the WWC years ago and still strongly holds on to the legalism. She brings up her beliefs to me at times and I try to kindly dispute them, but she is extremely brainwashed. I personally have found nothing in the Bible to support her beliefs. She is not presently in any offshoot. She would probably not attend one unless it was like the original. She feels that bad people who weren't strict like Armstrong is what caused the WCG to separate. My heart breaks for her. I know I can't push anything on her. I have done little, except tell my viewpoint a few times. Most of the time I'm in shock when I hear what she says. I could always feel something different about her. Unlike other Christians I know, including myself, the Lord is so real. I don't get that impression at all from her. She doesn't seem to have a love for Christ at all. She worships her concepts, such as "we are Israelites." She belonged to WCG in the 70's. She also tells everyone they'll have a second chance. She seems unconcerned at all when someone dies. Salvation isn't important to her. Just rules.

I really need support for myself too I guess. Just writing this email helps. I do not know of another person that has ever belonged to the WCG. I am a born again Christian and I guess this stuff just makes me hurt for her so much. I have told her of my experiences with my personal relationship with the Lord, but I feel she thinks it's nonsense or that I'm imagining something. Any information you have to give me would be appreciated.  Thank you, --Kentucky

It Was Tempting to Discard God and Turn to Atheism:

June 24, 2007

I recall when I first exited WCG. I felt so cheated when I realized the whole WCG experience was a sham that I didn't want to deal with feelings of being "betrayed by God Himself."  It was very tempting to turn to atheism. I had been deeply indoctrinated that "God's Church" and God were on equal footing. When we discard our cult experience, we are tempted to discard God right along with it. It's easier than dealing with the hurt, the anger, the embarrassment and the guilt. When I could get to the place where I could finally realize that evil men will use the name of God to further their evil purposes, and that God had no part in it, I could see God as a God who loved me, and cared deeply for me.

It is a good thing to reject the phony, made-up God of the WCG, but we must not stop there. We must allow the true God to help us work through our post-cult issues. Unfortunately, most exiters never make it to this point. They either run back into the same comfortable practices, or they run completely away.

Atheists feel that they are "free" without God. I think the Church of God experience made us hyperconscious of every little "sin" that we committed, whether real or imagined, that we don't truly understand what "freedom in Christ" means when we exit. So we swing ourselves to the other side of the pendulum, never realizing what freedoms we have under Jesus, and we think we have to reject Him completely in order to achieve any kind of freedom. We never learn what it means to rest in Him and His love.

The Lord will make sure those whom He loves will find the right way. After awhile, all these atheistic sites sound the same. This is why ESN is so refreshing. --S. Carolina

Is WCG Making it Harder For Them to Be Tracked?

June 26, 2007

I wonder about the way WCG has sprouted so many different entities. [see article Worldwide Church of God is Changing Their Name] It certainly makes them harder to track, and they can quickly shift assets from one entity to another. Seems very questionable why a "godly church" would have to make themselves harder to track or have a need for these multiple "corporations." --Former WCG member

Individuality Discouraged in WCG:

June 28, 2007

I read where you said, "People were used and controlled without any room for individuality, creativity, or talents. We were slaves that were slowly dying under grievous burdens, control and abuse." [Quoted from: Why Do Many Exiters of Armstrongism Turn to Agnosticism or Atheism?]

Early on, I noticed in the Spokesmen's Club that any individuality seemed to be heavily discouraged. There was a "mold" that each person had to fit into. I could clearly see that people with outstanding talents would not be used. Only those within the "insiders group" were likely to be used to benefit the local congregation. --E. (Former member/deacon in WCG)

Comment: We all have talents and interests, but WCG put them on hold. If you go to Stories & Testimonies From Child Survivors, there are two that tell how their talent of music was not appreciated and/or passed up. I am sure there are many, many more.

David C. Pack is  a Madman:

This letter has been moved to the stories.

Something Feels Unhealthy in WCG:

July 12, 2007

I left WCG several years ago, only to return in 2005. I felt I needed to go back to put some things behind me. I also felt like I needed to go back because it was "family." (Much of my family still attend, some in offshoots.) But since being back, I have never really been settled there and it feels wrong to me to be there. I have so much guilt about leaving because the people in my congregation think God is really doing amazing things for them. And I don't want to say he is not. I am really happy for them all and I hope they continue to grow. I know my family thinks what's happening there is amazing. In some areas it is. I just don't know what to think. I don't want to say God's not working if He is. It's just I sense some of the same legalism as was there before. 

My husband doesn't go with me and I know he is judged for it. At least I feel he is. He doesn't even really want the kids and I to be there. He grew up in WCG, and had the typical childhood you have read stories about.  I have been in discussions at church where I voiced my concern about what the future will be like for the youth in WCG. Is there a future for them there? I voiced these concerns and the concerns of my husband, and they were met with this response: "Well your husband just needs to come and see how things have changed." (I sensed a little disapproval.) I told them that he won't be coming ever. I liken it to a woman and her rapist. I wouldn't expect a woman who had been raped to start being close friends with her rapist. She can forgive him but that doesn't mean they will be close friends. I told them all that.

Then one woman made a comment about "everyone was hurt" (herself included I guess), but they "had stuck with it and hung in there." I got the feeling that those that left were seen in a negative light. I even feel guilty for writing that about her saying that, like I am saying bad things about her. I am not judging her. But I can't deny I am feeling these things. One elderly man got teary eyed a few weeks ago when we were having a church meeting. He was declaring how much he "loved the Worldwide Church of God and how we could all be giving more [money to HQ] to help things keep going." Something just feels so unhealthy to me.

I really want to leave and put this whole confusing time of my life (which is a good chunk of my life) behind me. I just feel so much guilt for leaving. I feel like for me, here we are twelve years later and for some reason I still feel turmoil there. They are still reeling from the changes. 

My parents divorced over the WCG, or it at least sped things up. I love my dad, but I do know one thing. He loves the WCG and still holds Mr. Armstrong in high regard and believes he was "a servant of God."

I went to a different church for two of the last three weeks and I loved it. I felt free. When I went to this new church, it was one of the first times since attending WCG services that I have felt a little bit like me, the happy-go-lucky person I was once, the one who wasn't living in constant fear that I had not done everything perfect enough for God to love me.

My husband 100% supports me in my decision. I don't want to be bitter, but I am tired of the turmoil. I know other churches aren't perfect, but I want to fly and be free. I don't want to run away from the confusion, but why stay? Everything about being there is a painful memory of what was taken from me. 

I know the WCG has changed but I still am horrified about what I am reading about the past. I don't want my children attending a church with that kind of history. know I am not their judge, but I am finding it hard to trust this organization any more. For years it appeared to be something it wasn't and I don't feel like stepping out to trust them again.

I thought with the WCG changes that was all the changing I had to do. Wrong!! I am beginning to realize that the guilt and the confusion I feel is symptomatic of having been in a cult. It was the WCG's control over me. I have to really work at it now to get un-culted (if that is a word). I feel horrible. Probably my biggest problem is that Mr. Tkach, Sr. seemed to be the one instituting the changes but after reading about him I think, how can I trust that he was genuine? It's just hard to comprehend.

I just need some encouragement on how to go forward to sever my ties completely with this organization. Even if there's only the possibility of these things being true about Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Tkach, the administration, and more, I feel I shouldn't have anything further to do with this organization. I have been looking for another church and have been attending a wonderful church the last few weeks, but I need to tell them at WCG I am not coming back. I need to just get it over with.

Thanks for letting me vent. I just need to talk to someone who understands. --A.

Comment: This person corresponded with three people in ESN and wrote back a few days later and said she left the WCG for good. (See following letter.)

Something Feels Unhealthy in WCG:

(2nd email from person above)

July 12, 2007

In the last week I have started to realize these people that I have been in church with are victims, too. It's really helped my perspective. That being said, even though I have a changed perspective, I also know that I don't want to raise my children in this church. So, I have left with no plans to go back--ever.

I do sense that the congregation here is a little frustrated with headquarters. Yet, they stay. What is interesting is that they still say to me that they don't think Mr. Armstrong knew he was wrong. "He didn't mean to mislead everyone." It can't be both ways.

I guess plain and simple, I just don't want to be a part of an organization with this mired past. It's hard enough seeing the trail of broken lives left in WCG's wake. I have a responsibility to teach the freedom of grace in Christ to my children and ask the Lord to help me live it.

Thank you for listening. I am so grateful. I keep wondering if I ever crossed paths with you at a feast. Thank you for reaching out to help people heal, to validate us. --A.

I am in Despair:

July 12, 2007

I have come back to your Exit and Support Network website on several occasions in the last few years. I stopped regular attendance with WCG some time ago (after joining in the 60s) and since the "changes" of the mid 90s have been praying and fasting to see the way forward.

I look around me and see a beautiful creation and realize there must be a God. I read the Scriptures posted on your web site about the love of God and my position in Christ, but I simply cannot believe them any more. My life has been a torment for many years. I now realize that I do not know--maybe never have known--God and Jesus Christ. I have confessed this in prayer, but seem to get nowhere. I have pleaded with God to help me, but to no avail.

I am having counselling for depression ... and am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I believe the root cause is my relationship (or lack of it) with God.

My wife, although not agreeing with the change of direction of the WCG, still believes it is the "one true church." Our child, who was a member, left after a minister betrayed a confidence. Although I lodged an official complaint, no action was taken.

It really seems like a massive mess, and I don't know what to do. --Former WCG member

Comment: This person has received a personal reply. After exiting a deceptive, exploitive group, it is common to suffer depression and complex post-traumatic stress disorder. However, the cause of the depression is not one's lack of relationship with God. It is a result of what was suffered by being in a religious cult. However, exiters do get through this and become stronger in the end. Also read: Sorting out spiritual concerns (from "How To Recover After Exiting a Deceptive, Abusive Group").

Beginning to Understand God's Love:

(2nd email from person above)

July 12, 2007

Thank you for your reply. I found it encouraging.

I am beginning to understand much more about the love of God. In the past I felt I would be zapped for any infringement of His laws. Now I grasp (albeit darkly at the moment) something of His love.

The way is forward. I realize that giving up a certain way of life that spans nearly 40 years won't be easy, but with God's mercy I will get there.

Thank you again. I may come back to you as new challenges arise. --Former member of WCG

Been Reading Some of Your Wonderful Articles:

July 19, 2007

I've been reading some of the wonderful articles on your site today--your poems too. Your article about why exiters become agnostics or atheists was really good and you present the gospel so well. I read that and benefited from it myself. Then I started to read about Thomas Paine and Madelyn O'Hare. Both really good articles. I'd never read that piece her son wrote before. She was something else. I didn't know Thomas Paine was an alcoholic. I want to read more of the articles when I get more time. God certainly did prepare you for your ministry and there is no one else doing it. Thanks again! --Former WCG member

Mrs. David C. Pack Dies of Cancer:

July 25, 2007

Mrs. Dave Pack died July 22. This is very sad, but not surprising news!

When I was in RCG (over three years ago) Mrs. Pack had been experiencing some minor health problems. Apparently, they became major health issues. She was a few years older than her husband. I am guessing that he is 58 and she was 62.

Mrs. Pack typed up almost all, if not all, of the pages of the books that the RCG (Restored Church of God) produced. Even the HWA re-writes were done by her (as far as I know). She was the former Shirley Ochs. Apparently, at one time she was one of HWA's secretaries. My understanding is that they had a "pool" of secretaries back then.

Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry are very similar in many ways. They share the common trait of being false prophets and unfortunately share in having their wives die premature deaths. Perhaps, Mr. Pack will be humbled by this tragic loss. It didn't humble Gerald Flurry. If anything he has gotten worse.

Your website keeps many of us informed. --John (Former Member of RCG and PCG)

Comment: Read 8-9-07 letter: David Pack Putting a "Positive" Spin on the Death of His Wife:

Peter Ochs:

July 26, 2007

When I attended the Milwaukee congregation in the 60's, I remember Peter Ochs (father of Shirley Ochs). He was always talking about this "GreenLife" product which he sold. I even remember him saying we all needed to drink more water and that he "drank a lot of it." Later I attended the Kenosha congregation and I don't remember how long it was after this that we heard how he died of diabetes. Evidently, he didn't even know he had it, as we were taught in those days to avoid doctors. --Wisconsin

Ron Lohr: What Would Be Genuine Contrition?

July 28, 2007

I read the letter Ron Lohr sent to ESN. Using the salutation "greetings" is reminiscent of HWA, so he may want to work a little more at it to get that out of his system. That is a trigger word for many WCG survivors and lacks sincerity and warmth. That is how a monarch greets his subjects, not how a friend or brother greets an equal.

I don't think it's a very good idea for Lohr to be in any teaching or pastoral role. Genuine contrition for one who has abused pastoral power would be to step down from the pulpit and sit in the pews instead. Don't be so focused on being a shepherd--spend some time being a sheep and listen to what others have to teach.

I also think that his letter is about defending himself and his motives, rather than concern for those he may have damaged. My choice to forgive is entirely my own choice, and incidentally was done a long time ago. Forgiveness is an act of releasing one's own anger and resentment. It does not mean that one is obligated to forget the past or whitewash their own memories. I do not expend any emotional energy resenting this person. He is a distant figure from long ago. But I do not retract my previous writings about his impact on my life because my intent with any writings on The Exit & Support Network is to tell my own story in the attempt to warn others of the dangers one can encounter in an unscrupulous world. I will always retain the right to my own memories and experiences. --Child survivor of WCG

Comment: See The "New" Ron Lohr for more links to what survivors have said.

I Respect and Appreciate Your Efforts:

July 28, 2007

I really must commend you for the time and trouble you take to help survivors. You did your "homework." Remember how "ministers" in the WCG would say those of us who did our homework would basically just wind up agreeing with them? ha! I really don't have the words to really tell you how much I respect and appreciate your efforts. I'll be re-reading all your new posts about Ron Lohr. It's great that his behavior has been addressed. Thanks! --Former member of WCG (Illinois)

So Much of What HWA Taught Was Orchestrated by the Devil:

August 3, 2007

It occurred to me the other day that, when it came to many of HWA's teachings, the underlying reason(s) behind what he taught were not always readily apparent. For instance, his insistence that a Christian was not born of God, or bound to Christ, until the resurrection. The underlying purpose to be served was to keep people under the law; bound to the law.

So it occurs to me that the reason the Holy Spirit is not accepted as a "person" is so that the Holy Spirit is not accepted as a "witness."

If one can deny the personage of the Holy Spirit, then they can deny what the Spirit witnesses to.

The Spirit testifies about a number of things, and is also a witness to the kingdom of God in relation to Christians now, that are rejected in the teachings of HWA type cults.

I can see where so much of what Herbert Armstrong taught was orchestrated by the devil, where the underlying causes would have been way beyond the comprehension of HWA. He was a willing accomplice. --Bill Hohmann (author of Mystery of the Ages (a 2nd critical review)

Child Survivor Filled With Much Fear and Mixed Up:

August 3, 2007

I was hunting for information on the Jehovah's Witnesses that keep coming to my door and I came upon a site that was not clearly labeled but boy was it familiar. After digging around a bit, it was a site by a David Pack (Restored Church of God). I looked around some more and found your site. What a blessing.

I am a Christian now, but not a very good one. I say that because I am filled with so much fear and am so mixed up. I read an article about Sabbath keeping that finally covered all of the bases that the WCG had uncovered. Not even my pastor could answer my questions and soothe my doubts about Sabbath keeping. And he has a PhD. I am terrified about not tithing properly. I still am afraid that I am not pleasing God, or else I fall into the other ditch of self-righteousness. I hope that by exploring your site I can finally have my millions of questions answered.

Why, after all this time (I finally escaped the clutches of WCG in 1996) do those teachings have such a powerful hold? I have taken courses, read lots of books, read my Bible, talked to lots of Christians, and I still have been unable to shake the feelings that I am not doing the right thing, even though I know in my heart the WCG doctrine is false. My mother started to take me to WCG when I was nine. I loved the feast but found the long sermons tiring. I still miss the Feast in the fall, the excitement, the fancy clothes, the time spent with my mother. Boy, there was nothing like it. However, I refuse to expose my children to that. And the crazy thing is that, if you try to tell anyone who was not in WCG about it, they look at you like you have a third head. I don't even think that Christian pastors have any idea of what these chains are like. Why won't God remove them?

The WCG said that it was okay to drink and my precious mother worked up to one gallon of wine a day (no kidding). I felt ostracized at church because my father did not attend. Some of the ministers were mean and they were all distant. They were all American and we were in Canada. Canadians rarely went to Ambassador College, yet my mom's tithes supported it. I enjoyed the Y.O.U. summer camps, but there was no religion there. My sex education consisted on my mother handing me The Missing Dimension in Sex. Oh, and all of those pretty colored booklets, you know the ones, The Plain Truth about Easter, The Plain Truth about Christmas, The Plain Truth about blah blah. We had all of them, And all of Garner Ted's booklets, and The Plain Truth and The Good News and Co-Worker Letters, and it makes me sick to think of how brainwashed we were. To top that off, we would drive half an hour to sit in a cold gymnasium in a hard chair to listen to a two and a half hour taped sermon of Herbert Armstrong screaming at us, or a three hour sermon by Gerald Waterhouse.

So there sat my Mom, with her wine and her books and to this day she still believes some of that crap. And so do I, but I am working hard to un-believe it so it doesn't haunt the rest of my life and prevent me from going to heaven. That is where we get to go, right? Thanks for being there. I know you understand. --Kind of Lost, but getting found in Canada --Michelle S. (child survivor of WCG)

Dumbfounding that "Ministers of God" Can Do These Things:

August 3, 2007

Thanks so much for the tapes. [My Story by C. Wayne Cole and Firing and Disfellowship by David L. Antion] I received them about three days ago. I listened to them right away and was able to confirm the many written articles and books I've read about the same things from many different sources. Makes them believable.

I was deeply impacted by the WCG experience ever since I became a member in the early 70's. It is really dumbfounding that men who call themselves "ministers of God" can do these things to their fellows. This was so effectively hidden from us then and we were so fooled by those "ministers" making us believe that the receivership was the work of Satan when it was really Satan himself working with those in the top leadership at that time.  

Thanks again. This is a great service you are doing to all who are willing to investigate and get free from this destructive religious systems. We are praying for you. God is always in charge (not these ministers) and He will take care of His people every time.

Yours, --Jose de la Cruz (Philippines)

David Pack Putting a "Positive" Spin on the Death of His Wife:

August 7, 2007

The more fanatical these groups get, the more dangerous they are. Yet there are those exiting PCG who are joining another fanatical group such as Restored Church of God.

Pack has put a "positive" spin on the death of his wife, talking about how she valiantly fought the "good fight" until she died. He still is claiming many "healings" in his group. My question is, why didn't God back up Pack's authority by healing his wife? Somehow the false prophets always seem to be required to give up their wives! (It goes back to HWA and Loma's illness.) How on earth is that any kind of "proof" that God is using them? It is more proof that the poor women haven't had regular checkups in years! It also goes to prove that no amount of "clean" food and rigorous law-keeping can prevent catastrophic disease! What "physical sin" was Mrs. Pack guilty of? Why didn't God forgive her and heal her? It is just hypocrisy to say she is healed in the resurrection! That totally voids the healing doctrine! --O. E., Impacted by PCG/RCG

Dave Pack's Claim to Have "Reached All Nations":

August 8, 2007

Since David Pack claimed in 2006 that "every country on earth" had officially been reached by the Restored Church of God, I would like to point out to Pack that HWA said that very thing back in 1985 at the Feast of Tabernacles when he distributed the Mystery of the Ages. I remember it very well. He excitedly said, "The Gospel has been preached to all nations!" I had only been in under three years and did not understand the significance of it until a long time member explained it to me. He said, "In all my years in the WCG, we have been working to preach the gospel to the world so the end would come. This is the very first time I have heard Mr. Armstrong declare that 'the gospel has been preached to all nations,' so now we can go home and prepare for the end to come." Because of this, I recall putting off school, having my orthodontics removed, etc. So here it is--over 20 years now--and the end hasn't come. I am not saying that the end won't come since the Bible teaches it, and I'm not ridiculing the Bible, but the point I'm making is that "the end" did not come when HWA said it would. That makes him a false prophet and we need to wake up and see that this false prophet has spawned many clones who are trying to milk his cash cow. --Kelly Marshall, former WCG member and author of Mystery of the Ages (A Critical Review)

Comment: Few of the WCG offshoot leaders write like David Pack, in such a voluminous, authoritative and convincing manner. It is easy to see how exiters looking for the "true church" (and who do not understand how exploitive, mind-manipulating groups function) could be easily taken in by Restored Church of God and its "original doctrines." Also see our section: Information on Restored Church of God.

David Pack is Full of Himself:

August 11, 2007

We used to travel to Akron, Ohio for Regional basketball weekends. The members had just lost their other minister and they were saying how God provided for their needs by bringing in Mr. Pack. The first time I saw David C. Pack he was very tall, and wore very, very tight spandex biking pants. I remember being surprised that anyone in "God's church" would wear such clothing, let alone a minister. Let's just say that it didn't hide his "anatomy" well. I remember being very embarrassed when I saw him, and I avoided looking at him for the rest of the day. Looking back on it, I can see he was so full of himself. He certainly liked to strut around in his tight britches.

On Pack's website on "Press Resources" he has three small photos of himself in various poses that visitors can click on to download and evidently enlarge. There are photos of the inside of his "world headquarters" which show different angles of everything in the building down to the desks and chairs. His Biography page--which has a dignified photo of himself with the caption "President and Pastor General"--lets us know about all he gave up to go to AC (i. e., "Dartmouth College, an appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy, and numerous scholarship offers"). He says he has the "largest Biblical website in the world." It is so evident that Pack has an inflated, insatiable ego, along with being a liar. I believe he is controlled by an evil spirit. --Former member of WCG

David C. Pack Says His Church Has a "Circle of Protection":

August 20, 2007

We received this letter from someone the other day. It appears as though Dave Pack is keeping some of his members in the dark. Pack has also said stupid things like only his church has a "circle of protection," However, we know of several incidents of people in Restored Church of God having met untimely deaths. Below is another example that his "circle of protection" theory is a lie!

"It was a shock to hear of Mrs. Pack's death as I never knew she was so seriously ill, until the last couple of weeks. I only heard that she had a persistent cough for over a year, but she was doing alright, exercising in a gym and was on a special diet. This morning, I received an email from HQ, informing the brethren, to pray for Mr. Pack's son Rob, who had a serious accident when a metal soccer goal tipped over and fell on his head and face, during the RCG Youth Camp. It now appears that Mr. Pack's son has been in the church for over a year, a fact I didn't know until a week ago."

It's sad that the sheep will continue to follow this ravenous shepherd! When will they ever learn? --John (Former member of WCG, PCG, & RCG)

P.S. I decided to do a search on the "circle of protection" and while I knew that it was superstition, I didn't realize that it actually has to do with witchcraft and the magic arts.  

Spiritually Abused Without Even Knowing it:

August 16, 2007

My husband and I have never been directly abused by a WCG pastor, but we were spiritually abused the whole time without even knowing it. It took me years to see it, and years to finally believe it. These ministers may have been nice, but they perpetuated an evil system of lies. For instance, I may be nice to you, but if I'm taking your money and know that it's not being used for the stated purpose, then that's abuse. If I know the top leader has been caught in lies and I hide it from you, that's abuse. If I know that I might be teaching something false that will later be changed, that's abuse. The list can go on and on. Just because the minister tells funny sermons, smiles and says "hello" to you at services, doesn't mean he isn't abusing you! This is what many exiters do not understand. I know, ten years later, I still held some "warm fuzzy feelings" toward Herbert Armstrong, even though I knew he was a false prophet. That should have told me how strong the lies we were being fed were (and who was feeding us these lies but our "kindly, loving" ministers?) When I read the critical reviews of Mystery of the Ages and I saw firsthand how HWA told lie after lie, that finally broke the bonds and I now see him as the evil hypocrite that he is. I don't think many exiters will ever take this step. That sweet, grandfatherly image (wearing that $5,000 Italian suit and $20,000 Rolex and gold cuff links) is difficult to break. --Ohio

Your Article Kept Me From Being Suckered:

September 12, 2007

Thanks for the article Did Herbert W. Armstrong Distort Historical Church Documents?

I had stumbled across some Living Church of God writings on early church history regarding Sabbath vs. Sunday and Passover vs. pascha. Your quotations of the full documents kept me from being suckered into the Church of God crap. Thanks much! --David B.

Feel an Underlying Sarcasm in Replies from WCG:

October 11, 2007

Whenever I have communicated with the "new and improved" WCG regarding their doctrines, etc., I've always felt an underlying sarcasm in the response, as if their words are "sugar-coated." The overall attitude toward openly answering direct questions is still evasive, as always. Some may answer with "In Christ, "Blessings" or some other closing, but their overall condescending attitude towards anyone who might question their actions is still thinly-veiled. There might be a "fresh coat of paint" on the WCG, but don't be fooled." --K.

Such a Relief to Know I'm Not Alone:

October 19, 2007

Hello, I came across your website a couple of days ago and am amazed! It's such a relief to see I'm not alone in my feelings, my memories, my problems. I was born into the "church" and stayed until I was 18, when I wanted to date someone outside. I have attachment and self-esteem issues even today, and in accepting less than what I deserve, since "deserve" was not a good word growing up! Thank you so much for creating this site! ----Child survivor of WCG

How I Know Every Word in Open Letter to Joseph Tkach Jr. is True:

October 26, 2007

What a great letter by Sharon Griffith. [Read: An Open Letter to Joseph Tkach Jr.] I personally knew about Sharon through some long time church members and even though I had never seen the letter she wrote Tkach Jr., my friend told me about it years ago. Sharon describes exactly what went on in the WCG during "the changes." My friend told me that she was 52 years old (at that time) and she had been calling headquarters. She somehow was successful in reaching Joe Tkach Sr. (JWT) and they had spoken to each other on the phone on several occasions. I do remember that JWT gave her his number and told her she could "call him anytime" and she did frequently. I am glad to see this confirmed in her letter. She was calling JWT and talking to him, and then the man in the Ohio church (who had been in 28 years and was friends with our friend who was in 26 years) would call her and she would relay what was said, and our friend in turn gave it straight to me from the horse's mouth. She was the one that passed the Earl Williams tapes off to the friends of mine and they passed them off to me. I am certain my friend has a copy of that letter since she sent him everything.

Yes, she was right on about the guilt tactics. I recall one Sabbath where the minister was reading the PGR [Pastor General Report from HQ] and quoting the scripture where Jesus was introducing the bread and wine and "the disciples walked with him no more," and Jesus asked his own disciples whether they would do the same. Then the PGR questioned the members loyalty and said that those who quit the WCG were walking away from Jesus like the disciples.

HQ used some pretty low down tricks like that to coerce us to stay--always using guilt and twisting scriptures to make us feel like rats for wanting to leave. I'm glad Sharon spoke out against all the confusion they made us suffer through. It was awful. Every word in that letter is true. JWT asked her something to the effect of "what should be done to make the changes better (or acceptable)" and she told him, "You need to tell the members that Herbert Armstrong was not God's Apostle, and you need to tell them that you are not God's Apostle either." She said there was "dead silence" on JWT's end of the phone. That's when she knew the changes were shallow and he wasn't going to come clean about the whole HWA cult.

My friends, who had been long time members, were wondering whether they should permanently leave the WCG (since D. James Kennedy and others were telling us to "go back"). When they spoke to Sharon, and she relayed how JWT wouldn't denounce HWA, they decided that they were making the right decision in leaving. When he and his wife were telling everyone "Goodbye" at church, I asked him why he was leaving. That's when he took me aside and told me about all kinds of things that went on that I was never aware of. He had been in 26 years, so I knew he knew so much more than I did. He told me of all the exploitation that had occurred during their tenure with the WCG (like HWA asking people to take a second mortgage on their homes and send in the money for "God's House"). They pointed out to me that the WCG wasn't coming clean because JWT wouldn't admit the truth about HWA, and that he did not have the charisma and the hold over members that HWA had, so they rode on the coattails of his name for as long as they could. This was pretty eye-opening to me. That's when I realized the lies and deception would continue (and they have even to this day). He said I shouldn't waste any more time there and advised that I leave, too, and I did.

--Kelly Marshall, former WCG member; author of The Earl Williams Factor and other articles on ESN site.

The Conclusion Shouldn't Be "There is No God":

November 3, 2007

After I exited WCG in the mid 90's, I recall reading a former member agnostic site and becoming very angry and questioning religion and God. That's when I realized that I didn't want the mistake of ending up where HWA is now and spending an eternity there in outer darkness with him! It's okay to be angry, but the conclusion shouldn't be "there is no God." The conclusion should be "there are wicked men out there willing to use God's name and authority to abuse others, and Jesus warned us this would happen. I need to reject these men (instead of rejecting God)." --N. C.

Comment: Also read: It Was Tempting to Discard God and Turn to Atheism (June 24, 2007 letter to ESN)

Dave Pack Focuses on Others' Wrong Doings:

November 10, 2007

I talked to another former Restored Church of God member last week. They mentioned that at least one person in that group is upset by Dave Pack saying that only RCG has a "circle of protection." They see the hypocrisy. Well, here we go again with another untimely death in that organization. I was able to confirm that Ernest Owino of Kenya, once a minister in GCG/LCG and lastly with RCG, died. I know that it was recent, but am unsure of the date. How convenient it is for Dave Pack and the RCG to post all kinds of bad news about other groups on their web site. They call other church of God organizations Laodiceans and "splinters." Dave Pack likes to keep the dirty laundry about his group quiet, unless it can somehow boost his importance. He wants to show others that he is the "only man that God is working through." This is the mark of a clever con-man. They want to keep the focus on others' wrong doings, and bad news. They don't want to focus on themselves. They don't see a need to change. --J. G.

Step-Granddad Was John Amos / Cult-Like Mentalities Still in WCG:

November 28, 2007

Hi. I am a former WCG member. I was born into the WCG in 1980 (3rd generation) and was present for all the changes. My step-granddad, John Amos, started the PCG with Gerald Flurry. This was a very hard time for my family as my stepdad chose to stay in the WCG and not join the PCG. He didn't stay long, however, before leaving WCG completely when John Amos died in 1993. My mom and maternal grandparents still go to the current WCG, as they went along with the changes in the early 90s. I, however, quit attending in 2005 and have joined a nondenominational Christian church which I love!! There are still too many previous cult-like mentalities in the WCG congregation that my family attends and I am so happy to be completely free of it all!! I just wanted to write and tell you that I really like your site and appreciate what you are doing! The Amos family is still heavily involved in the PCG along with some others ex-members of WCG that I know. It is just sooooo sad!! Do you have any advice for getting them to see the light? I feel so helpless! Again, thank you!! --Kelly Case - Child survivor/former member WCG

Comment: Helping those still in is covered on our Q&A under Questions about Members. Members were programmed during the changes (see our section Research Info on WCG) and continue to be programmed.

Update: Kelly sent further info the next day. Read: Abused By Worldwide Church of God Cultic Mentality When I Decided To Leave Their Fellowship.

We Thought the Feast Was "Better Than Christmas":

November 29, 2007

I remember saying "how much better the Feast was than Christmas." Of course it seemed that way to those of us who had plenty of 2nd tithe. We lived the whole year in financial straits, and then when the Feast arrived, we were free to go overboard. We ridiculed Christians who were "getting drunk and overspending" during the Christmas season, but the Feast was an 8-day drinking and spending spree for many. Every year I personally witnessed members who would drink round after round of cocktails and mixed drinks while overeating rich foods at pricey restaurants. But the usual reasoning we held for such overindulgence was: "It's okay because the Bible says we can eat the fat and drink strong drink."

At the end of the rung were the poor who had little 2nd tithe to spend. I remember one man telling me how he was "eating at McDonald's" during the Feast. Another family would go to their vehicle every day to eat bologna sandwiches with their children. At the same time, I knew the ministers lounged in their expensive hotels and condos, indulging in the "best of the best," yet never lifting a finger to invite these "less desirable" (or "unblessed") members out to eat. It reminds me of the rich man who only tossed crumbs to the beggar at his gate.

HWA tried to paint an idyllic "World Tomorrow" by attending the Feast, which in reality, wasn't true. Since our daily lives were strict and frugal all year, is it any wonder why we thought the Feast was the ultimate experience? I spend so much less for Christmas now than I did trying to spend all the 2nd tithe I could during the Feast. I am convinced that spending thousands of dollars in just over a week is not emotionally healthy either. It certainly creates a "high" that can never be rivaled, which I'm convinced is why people think the Feast is "better than Christmas." --L. B.

UCG-AIA Moving HQ / Increased Rhetoric on Tithing to Come?

December 13, 2007

It looks like the UCG-AIA is moving its headquarters from Ohio to property near the town of Denton, Texas. According to the December United News in the article titled "Council Approves Purchase of Texas Property" the UCG has purchased 81.5 acres north of Denton at a cost of 1.6 million dollars. The article also stated that "[the UCG would] most likely not actually close on the property until early January, but the Council gave its approval last week in light of a looming deadline for commitment."

I'm sure members can expect increased rhetoric on tithing within the UCG's sermons to pay for this property and the new building projects to come. --Impacted by UCG

WCG More Corrupt and Depraved Than I Imagined:

December 15, 2006

I have never properly researched the WCG movement until the last two years. It
turns out it was far more corrupt and depraved than I could ever have imagined--a veritable antichrist. I regard the majority of cult leaders as atheists who regard God and the Bible as mere interesting ideas while they carry on as usual in pursuing their real agenda--power and glory.

Many years ago at Seacroft in Yorkshire there were some who were trying to warn me about the cult (WCG), including a kind retired Lady from Wakefield.

Thank you for an outstanding site which has been very helpful and continues to do so. --Former member of WCG (Europe)

David Pack  Will Do All He Can To Keep RCG Ship From Sinking:

December 17, 2007

Dave Pack gave a sermon on 11/03/07 called "Clarion Call: The Time is Now!" (This sermon has now been pulled from his site.) During this sermon he tells his church members to liquidate their assets and send them to HQ. Rather than bore you with all of his nonsense, I just wanted to let you know that it's caused quite a stir within his congregations and among other COG organizations. Even the minister in the COG where I attend mentioned it to me. As a former RCG member, I tried to warn others about Dave Pack even before I left. He is a marketing genius who cleverly has marketed himself, the RCG web site, and his organization. What he didn't consider is that with an aging COG it's difficult to bring in the tithes. The ship is sinking and he is going to try and do all he can to keep it afloat. He'll try and compete with the bigger COG organizations and keep the facade up for as long as he can. If you leave there, he will tell you that you are abandoning the work. RCG members wake-up, the ship is sinking! --Former member of PCG and RCG

Update: Pack gave the "Clarion Call" sermon on November 3, 2007. He pulled it offline five weeks later, added other words to let the members know how well they responded to his sermon, then he put it back online.

What Are Numbers in Restored Church of God?

December 22, 2007

I have been reading about the Restored Church of God and David Pack, and the fact that he told his people to sell everything and send it to him. [see previous letter] Does anyone know how many people he has? I hope both RCG and the PCG fall apart soon. Thanks. --R.

Update: In 2002, we were informed that Dave Pack had less than 200 members. Recently, a former RCG member told us that this is an area where Pack is secretive, as he wants to appear bigger than what he is. He said it's doubtful Pack has more than 1,000 worldwide, but this includes those who are not baptized.

Dave Pack Has Been Begging For Money For Years:

December 23, 2007

Dave Pack Uses Guilt and Outright Extortion in "Clarion Call" Sermon:

December 30, 2007

I just sat and listened to over two excruciating hours of Dave Pack's sermon, "Clarion Call." It was awful. He used guilt and outright extortion against his members. He asked members not to send in thousands, but tens of thousands of dollars by taking out home equity loans! He was very specific about the amounts that he expected to see.

He also told people to take money out of their 401K's and retirement accounts, and to put any real estate that they own up for sale. He really put a guilt trip on them by telling them how his wife bled for 4 years while doing the work (i. e., she sacrificed herself, and members should do no less).

He also mentioned that nobody was going to tell him what to do with the money once he got it. He tells the members to cash in all their assets and send it in. Unfortunately, the members listened to him and did it. He tried to make members believe that since they're fleeing, then they won't have to worry about paying any of this back anyway. He tells them they will be going to the place of safety soon (if not in a few years)--he keeps changing the time frame--and if they can't give up their money now, then they certainly won't give it up when it's time to go. But he also made it very clear that they weren't going to the place of safety unless they did do it. It was so cruel.

He also declared a day of fasting (which of course will make the members more pliable to his wishes). It seems that he had purchased some expensive printing machines and didn't have money to pay for it. He is intending on mass publishing a book and selling it in bookstores across the country. So he bullied the members into giving him the money, and lo and behold, five weeks later, God has "opened doors" for him! Now he can go out and publish to his heart's content. Of course, he said that people would call him a cult leader, but he didn't give a hoot what people were going to say about him. 

It's all so terrible what he said and what he did. I put a copy of the recording on my desktop. --Kelly Marshall, former WCG member and author of Mystery of the Ages (a critical review)

Update: Kelly has done a critique of David Pack's sermon: Exposé of "Clarion Call—The Time is Now!" (Pt. 2) (Includes excerpts from "The 1335 Days—What Most Will Never Hear" - Pt. 1).

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