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NOTICE: Living
Church of God is an offshoot of
Worldwide
Church of God, founded by Herbert W. Armstrong. Roderick C. Meredith was
formerly associate editor for the Plain Truth magazine. Search for
Plain Truth archives online the web to read some of his false prophecy articles
and others.
Members of the Living Church of God now meet every Saturday at a
new location in Waukesha, Wisconsin. Many of the members still have a
problem with all of this, but they don't talk about it. This is what is
known as the "don't talk rule" in spiritually abusive groups. (August
2006 update)
Letter
Archives
Info on Rod Meredith:
March 13, 2005
Rod Meredith had some strange sermons when I was in
Living Church of God and after his videos I would always comment with
other members on how they all sounded the same. He was always so
pride filled talking about how he was the Golden Glove Boxing Champion
and how popular he was in high school. I know a man who attended high
school with Meredith who said he (Meredith) was not anybody special or
popular in school. He wanted to be called "Dr." Meredith. His first
wife died of cancer since she was not treated properly by doctors
(thanks to the WCG's "no doctors rule"). I knew his son, Mike. He was pretty
messed up by how his dad raised him. Meredith has major
control issues. The power struggles with the ministers brought the
demise of his first church Global Church of God. He started out
teaching one man government. I know because one of my [relatives] was
one of the original members of GCG [Global
Church of God]. I do remember the collegiate
government very well. Larry Salyer would not come on if Meredith was
in total power and he came out with a government on "collegiate
government" (rule by a board of elders). (Larry Salyer was our local
minister for several years here and we got to know him well.) Then
when Larry Salyer took over the GCG and put Meredith out for control
issues, Meredith started teaching one man government. The answer that
he gave people always depended on who he was talking to and such.
From what I have heard, the LCG does not want its members associating
with other WCG offshoot members like the United
Church of God or the Philadelphia
Church of God and now even family
members who do not believe the same way. I was at a LCG Passover
service once and a man there got chewed out right before Passover
service while everyone was coming in--right in the entrance way--for
visiting another church (it was a split of Victor Kubic's brother's
church). These people lived about a hour and a half drive from
services or better and they wanted to go somewhere closer.
One of the LCG congregations had the most old run down unsafe
places to meet in. The congregation was almost all widowed, older
women, and the only bathroom was in a dimly lit basement. The hall had
several steps to get into and the flooring had busted tiles with
pieces all over the floor. This was brought up to Meredith, but
they had a way of calculating the number of people and how much they
were worth per person on what they were allowed to spend for rent of a
hall. A local elder here found out the price Meredith paid for rent
for his personal office space and left GCG for UCG. It seemed like it
was all about the money and Meredith was always asking for it. He got
used to the high life under Herbert Armstrong but never reached the money level of
the high point at the
Worldwide
Church of God. We once asked if Meredith believed that
HWA was the "end-time Elijah" and a man in LCG said "no," that Meredith
did not believe that, and then this person went on to speculate maybe
it was Meredith who was the "end-time Elijah." --Former LCG member
(exited 2001)
Comment: Read
What Happens if I Join
Roderick Meredith's Living Church of God?
Be sure
and read preceding letter: Info on Rod Meredith
Eight Dead
in Living Church of God Shooting Spree!!
March 13, 2005
I guess you heard about
the March 12 shooting spree at the Living Church of God services in Brookfield,
Wisconsin (near Milwaukee). Eight people were killed, including
the shooter, Terry Ratzmann. Dead are Randy Gregory (the pastor of
LCG) and his son,
James. Gregory's wife, Marjean,
was wounded. At this point no
knows what set the shooter off. This is terrible! Maybe now someone
will wake up!! --Canada
Roderick Meredith Needs to Be
Exposed:
March 13, 2005
While I was on the computer last night, I saw the article just as
soon as it came up. They didn't know who anybody was but reported
that the people were in church services. That's when I thought,
"A rented hotel and Sabbath services. I bet they are one of the
churches of God." About 30 minutes later I checked the news again, and they
mentioned the Living Church of God. I knew my hunch was right.
That's when I emailed ESN. Then I emailed CNN under "News Tips"
and told them that the Living Church of God was not an evangelical
denomination, but a "cult," and that
Roderick Meredith broke away
from the WCG. I even wanted to call the police department in
Wisconsin and tell them about Meredith. I could hardly sleep last
night. I want Meredith to be exposed and to get enough people
looking at the news to prevent them from going into this awful
group! --Former WCG member
Surprised This Hasn't Happened
Before:
March 14, 2005
Wow! I just read the article on the shootings. How awful! I'm
surprised this hasn't happened before this. --Former WCG member
WCG Minister said he Never
Heard of a Shooting in a Church Before:
March 14, 2005
Seeing as Terry Ratzmann
targeted the minister, his wife and
son sounds like a pretty good indicator he was about to be
dissed. Probably figured he'd take others with him into
oblivion.
The strange thing here is that,
about 10 years ago, I tried to warn WCG that there was a greater
likelihood of this sort of thing happening, and that precautions
should be taken. I was met with "we never heard of a shooting in
a church before" from Mears.
I'll bet they've heard of them now.
--Former WCG member
Geraldo Rivera Twisted the Story:
March 14, 2005
Reporters twist and slant to what they want to. I heard the
interview on Geraldo yesterday. It was not good. It put
LCG
into same category as Military / Patriot type groups and muddied
the water even further. --Former WCG member
My Gut Feeling About
Ratzmann:
March 14, 2005
I was talking to a friend about Geraldo's comment
about Rod Meredith saying things about Ratzmann on a tape, and I thought
that sounded suspicious. I imagine that it was the local minister who
said something about him (probably said something that was directed at Ratzmann, even though the other members didn't catch it.) I had that
happen to me once. I told the minister that my friend and I had read a book
at the Christian bookstore once (it was Walter Martin's earlier
edition of The Kingdom of the
Cults) and I saw the WCG listed in it. The next week, our
minister got up and gave a
sermon about having "itching ears" and going around looking for stuff
against the church! I was so new in the church and I was embarrassed
because I knew he was talking about me in an indirect way.
I don't think Ratzmann went in there and
did what he did because he was "depressed." I think he and the
minister had some kind of run in and the minister said something
that may have embarrassed him. I just don't see Meredith taking the
trouble to deal on tape, with the "lowlife sheeple." HWA never
bothered, and Meredith is just too important. I think that Ratzmann
must have thought he was going to be disfellowshipped and killed the
minister before it could be announced (that's my gut feeling). I'm
wondering if Ratzmann asked for third
tithe assistance since he knew
he was losing his job? Maybe the comment on the tape was, "Third
tithe assistance isn't an unemployment fund." I've heard ministers
say things like that. Maybe Ratzmann felt that all those years he had
tithed, and now he asked for some help and was refused. We need to
speak out against these evil men. That Ratzmann fellow "seemed"
to be a bright, decent young man. For him to get up in a huff
like that shows me that he was "challenging the system." No
doubt either he called the minister, or vice versa, after that
sermon. I am certain he was reprimanded for his "attitude." I
think people don't realize how trapped members truly are.
--Former WCG member
Comment: Anytime a member of
these groups goes against "the government of God" (i. e., the
leader), they
can be labeled "demon possessed," "mentally unbalanced," "evil,"
etc. The story:
What
Motivated Terry Ratzmann's Shooting Spree in the LCOG?,
succinctly brings out how "they [the
police] are not likely to find the answer in one sermon. The
answer will likely be found in all of the sermons, all of the
doom and gloom predictions, and all of the heavy burdens found in
the Living Church of God."
Living Church of God is
Apocalyptic Like David Koresh:
March 14, 2005
Where did CNN ever get the idea the
LCG was Evangelical??
Amazing how WWCG under HWA was a cult and now they are
Evangelical?? My how the times have changed.
I sincerely pray that the truth is uncovered about this.
Unfortunately it seems the media doesn't like the whole
truth. I didn't see much about it on CNN or FoxNews.
I hope they mention the fact that this organization is
apocalyptic just like David Koresh and how fear is instilled
into the members. My prayers are with those who have been
affected by this. I know they are a cult, but I feel so bad
for them all. I hope something good comes out of this--maybe
realizing that this is what happens when you have that
Armstrong garbage doctrine in your head for over 30 years!!
--Former WCG member Comment:
When WACO was in the news, it started some
who were in the Worldwide Church of God to start wondering
whether the WCG was also a "cult" and to see that they had
taught some of the same doctrines as David Koresh did. Read:.
The
Branch Dividians (David Koresh) were an offshoot from the Millerites (Seventh-day
Adventists), just as the WCG was.
Who Will Write the Truth About LCG?March 14,
2005
Is anyone
out there in TV land in the media going to
write the truth about
LCG? It amazes me
that when a church is somewhat normal in
doctrine and someone somewhere screws up, it
is all over the airwaves. But when a cult
posing as a church does this heinous act,
nothing much is said! Where are all the
cult busters when you need them? All those
Christian ministries that care about true
doctrine? I guess they are all hiding so as
not to put the spotlight on themselves. Where is Hank Hanegraaff now,
eh? What a shame
the CAN
(Cult Awareness Network) went down the tube. Shame on FOXnews. --Former WCG member
Roderick
Meredith Preaches End-time Prophecies:
March 14, 2005
See this
article on MSNBC which states LCG
focuses on "end-time" prophecies. I quote:
This year, the
group’s leader, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith,
wrote that events prophesied in the Bible
are "beginning to occur with increasing
frequency."
"We are not
talking about decades in the future. We
are talking about Bible prophesies that
will intensify within the next five to 15
years of your life,” he wrote in the
church’s magazine, Tomorrow’s World."
The news article
went on to state that Meredith:
"advised
members to gather emergency food supplies
and follow government instructions on how to
prepare for an emergency."
--Impacted by loved
one in Armstrong offshoot
"No
Motive" says CNN?
March 14,
2005
What's with this "no motive" theory
reported by CNN?? I guess they don't
really want to find a motive! Terrible
to say, but you and I both know there
was a motive, and even more terrible is
that any one of us who had our minds
polluted with this doctrine of fear could do
this same horrible act if the
circumstances were right! That is quite
the sobering thought! Fear does wild
things to people. I'm sure right now
those in the churches of God (COG) groups are even more
messed up!
Keep
up all your good work! --Canada
Flurry to Use Shooting to
His Advantage?
March 14, 2005
I just shudder to think how
Flurry is going to "use this"
shooting to his advantage. --Former
WCG/PCG member
Just
Looking up Info on Shooting and Found
Your Site:March 14, 2005
Wow! I just came across this site
today! I was looking up info on the
heartbreaking shooting at
LCOG,
curious to see if any of the members
in that congregation were any of those
who had left the Wisconsin WWCG
congregation where we had attended for
some time. I am a survivor of 22
years of WWCG, from age 5 to 27. We
had our first child while in "The
Church" and I thank God over and over
that my two sons will not go through
what so many other children have.
Some members of my family now
attend
offshoots of WWCG. Recently,
one relative was crying as she told my
grandmother how saddened she was that
my grandmother would not make it into
the Kingdom. Fortunately, my
grandmother is a strong survivor as
well and loves each family member
dearly, but finds it so hard that one
of her children is in LCOG and another
is in United.
I never thought I would call myself
a "survivor"--after all, wasn't I
"privileged" to be chosen by God to be
in "The church" rather than wandering
hopelessly in "The world?" This site
is so eye-opening and comforting!
--Former member/child survivor of
WCG in Wisconsin
Another Wave of Cult Events like in
70's and 80's:
March 14, 2005 It could be that we're getting ready
to see another wave of "cult" events
like what happened back in the '70s
and '80s ( Jonestown,
Waco). With the
churches
of God stepping up
the fear tactics, as they start losing
money sources (members), it could get
dangerous. --Anonymous
Focus of LCG Sermon Two Weeks Ago /
Trauma:
March 14, 2005
According to one source the sermon
two weeks ago in
LCG focused on "how
bad fortune befalls those who make
ungodly choices." Sounds like more of
HWA's diatribe: "If you don't obey,
this is what will happen to you" and
"choose to be blessed or choose to be
cursed."
I hope someone knew enough to make
sure that the survivors received
proper crisis intervention right away
(i.e.,
Critical Incident Stress
Management). Intrusive memories and
nightmares always follow that kind of
severe trauma. The tragedy is that LCG
and other cults will now use this to
tell their members "this is what
happens to those who give themselves
over to Satan"--thus creating even more
fear. --Anonymous
Shocked That LCG Member Had Great
Enthusiasm About the Shooting!
March 14, 2005
This heartbreaking occurrence
has been much in my mind. Yesterday, because I was
sorrowing for those who were
slain and those who remain
behind, I suggested to my
husband that we call a couple we
know who are in
LCG.
I
expected the people to be even
more heart broken than we
were because it was their
church. What a shock we got.
The
man did all the talking (didn't
even bring up the shooting until
I did). This is just one man,
but he was reporting what went
on after church when his
congregation found out about the
shooting.
With great enthusiasm, like he
was reporting some great truth
from God, he said they discussed
reasons why God caused/allowed
this to happen: the people
killed were so near perfect they
could be allowed to die (and
thus would miss the Great
Tribulation) and they would make
it into the kingdom because they
were so advanced in their walk
to perfection, or God caused
this to happen as a wake up call
to those in the church who were
becoming Laodicean. Another
thought was that they weren't
bad people, but God wanted to
send a stern warning to those
who were becoming Laodicean.
This thinking is skewed in many
ways. Just to name a few, the
concept in these people's minds
of what God is like is scary. Those who died included
teenagers. Were they already so
advanced in their development
toward "perfection" that they
were used as a sacrifice? Or were they Laodicean and God
became impatient with these
teens, so zapped them? Was the
minister a Laodicean? How
bizarre this whole attitude
is.
Just thought you would like to
see what some in LCG are
thinking. I was disgusted and
sickened with his comments; I
still keep shaking my head. There was no sorrow expressed. It was as if God did it
Himself, and no one can question
what occurred because God willed
it or allowed it.
Sincerely, --Former UCG member
How LCG Members Justify The
Shootings in Their Mind:
March 14, 2005
I was wondering how the
LCG members would try to justify
this in their minds. I know
when I was in the WCG, I
thought we had "special
protection" from God because
we were his chosen. If we
were obedient and pleased Him,
He would send His angels to
protect us from any kind of
harm. We thought He would
protect us all the way to the
place of safety and keep
us from the cataclysmic
destruction of the Great
Tribulation. Now here, you
have someone (Terry Ratzmann) that
was a special, "called" member
who clearly disobeyed God by
not only killing, but killing
a minister no less--an
ordained "priest" of God. How
can they ever resolve that God
didn't protect them and that
one of the "chosen" committed
the crime?
I figured that maybe Ratzmann
thought if he killed the
minister before he was
disfellowshipped, he at least
would have "stood a chance" to
explain his side before God. But if he was
disfellowshipped, then he
would be resurrected and
thrown into the Lake of Fire,
and have no chance at all to
plead his case before God. I
know this sounds weird, but
this is how I felt when
I left. I didn't want to be
disfellowshipped because I
thought maybe God would at
least have some mercy on me if
I decided to ever return. If I was put out, then I knew
I faced certain death. How
awful our minds were twisted
while in that group!
Ratzmann may be been suspended
from services when he didn't
return during those two
weeks. I imagine that he was
probably going to get
disfellowshipped and that's
why he took matters into his
own hands. I hope we find out
more. --Former WCG
member
I Knew it Must be an Offshoot
of WCG:
March 15, 2005
I live in Milwaukee, only a
few miles from where the
shootings during the service
of the "Living Church of God"
took place. As soon as the
news broke and details
regarding the services on
Saturday aired, I knew that it
must have been an off-shoot of
the church I was born into,
the Worldwide Church of God. I came across your site while
searching for more info on the
LCG. My experiences were not
as awful as so many, some even
positive. Luckily my parents
were loving and very
supportive as I was growing up
and not at all abusive. They
taught me to be strong and
independent. Much to their
dismay I chose to leave the
church in the early 1990's,
prior to the major changes
that occurred shortly after. Eventually my parents left
too, and through much healing
we have gotten through the
worst of it. I found many of
the letters posted on your
site comforting, as I still
suffer spiritually. I spent
over 2 hours just reading the
support letters on your site.
Many things regarding religion
I just have not dealt with.
This saddens me as I feel like
I'm cheating my children
somehow. I have assimilated
into the real world and for
the most part live a "normal
life." Writing this letter
felt good.
I am strong, I am a
survivor. Thank-you. --Child
survivor of WCG
So Shameful What These Cults
Do: March 15,
2005
The LCG shootings were very
close to us.This is such a
tragedy!
I could feel something odd
about this right about when
I seen the newsflash and
instantly told my wife "this
sounds like a cult." I
looked up the name of the
church "Living Church of
God" and found that none
other than
Rod
Meredith is
the head honcho over this
cult.
So shameful what these cults
can do. On the TV news, a
lady that attends services
said the pastor directed a
sermon at the murderer and
the "sins" in his life a few
weeks ago and it apparently
sent him into a rage.
This is so sad and so close
to home.
Armstrongism is all over
their doctrine! --Formerly
involved with PCG
Living Church of God --
They're Lying Again to the
Media:
March 16, 2005
I thought I would let you
know that I live near
Charlotte, North Carolina
where the headquarters for
the
Living Church of God
is located as well as
other splinter groups.
Last night on our local
news, a reporter
interviewed a Mr. Charles
Bryce of Charlotte,
NC (LCG church
administrator) and said
that he was on his way to
Wisconsin to provide
comfort and financial
support to those affected
by the shooting. Since
when did the leaders of
any of these cults provide
comfort and/or financial
assistance to their
members? I'm sure it's
more to inform the members
that they aren't to be
interviewed by the media
and if so he will "inform"
them of what "really"
happened last Saturday in
Wisconsin.
I was a member of the WCG
since I was a child in the
early 70's and finally
left on my own around
1995/96, so I know a
little bit about what I'm
talking about.
The reporter went on to
say that he was informed
that the actual sermon
that upset Terry Ratzmann
was actually given by
Charles Bryce and not by
Roderick Meredith. He
also said it was about
Christian values and not
prophecy as reported by
the news. He said that
the police chief had a
copy of it and I wouldn't
be shocked if Meredith
gave a copy of one of
Bryce's old sermons that
wasn't as titillating as
most of them are, or one
that has been doctored
up. If they can lie about
financial assistance and
comfort they can certainly
lie about whose sermon
Terry was upset about and
what the actual content of
the sermon was.
The reporter held up a DVD
and they showed a few
seconds of Charles Bryce
speaking in a sermon and
said that the sermon that
Terry heard was supposedly
this one.
I'm very saddened by these
events and I feel such
compassion for those who
had to witness this horror
as well as those who lost
their lives, but I think
part of the blame has to
be put on Meredith and his
ministers. --WCG child
survivor
How Flurry Will
Use This Tragedy to His
Advantage:
March 16, 2005
I said earlier this
week that I shudder to
think what Flurry will do
with this shooting tragedy
at the LCG service in
Wisconsin. Here is what I
think he will probably do
to use this tragedy to his
advantage in scaring his
members to follow him with
more zeal and commitment
than ever:
1. He will hammer home
his warped teaching that
the
PCG is in the "inner
court" of God's temple,
and that all other
splinter groups are in the
"outer court." He has
long taught that only
those in the "inner court"
receive protection. This
will be a "I told you so"
event for him to exploit.
2. He will probably say
that "this is only the
beginning of sorrows" for
those in these "outer
court" splinter groups,
and that God is also
warning those in the PCG
who are thinking about
leaving. He will say, "Do
you want to lose the
precious protection you
now have in the inner
court"?
3. He will probably say
that this event happened
to Meredith's group
because Meredith wrote
that booklet saying that
"God's government" is
collegial and not strictly
"top down" as it was under
HWA. Because as you know
according to Flurry,
"Government is
everything." (Of course
he will gloss over the
apparent fact that
Meredith does once again
practice the "top down"
dictatorial government and
that was why he was kicked
out of Global).
4. He will probably
scream from the pulpit
that "persecution is now
well under way to smear
HWA's name and teachings,"
and that comparisons will
be made by the media
between the LCG and the
PCG, and that the PCG will
probably come under
increasing scrutiny by the
"world which is under
control by Satan."
5. He will probably say
that the man who did the
shooting was "demon
possessed", and that was
probably a result of not
praying, studying and
tithing in the correct way
in order to receive more
of God's spirit. He will
probably warn the PCG
members that they are
also susceptible to
"demon possession" if they
don't pray, study, and of
course tithe properly to
"God's only true work left
on Earth."
I'm sure that Flurry will
be giving the main message
from Edmond this Saturday,
and the tape will be sent
out to all congregations
to played the following
week. Basically he will
use this tragedy to scare
the members into even more
strict, unquestioning
obedience in order to
receive protection from
Satan. --Former member of
WCG/PCG
Good Things Will Come Out
of This If Only One Person
Doesn't Join:
March 16, 2005
I think that some good
things will come out of
this. If nothing else,
there will be an
increase in public
awareness. If there is
one person that comes
out of an Armstrong
group because of this,
or just one person that
doesn't join, then some
good has come out of
this tragedy. --Impacted
by loved one in PCG
Shocked, but not Really
Surprised:
March 16, 2005
Dear ESN,
I was shocked to hear
about the Wisconsin
church shootings, but on
some level it didn't
really surprise me
either. As a child that
was raised in WCG, I can
certainly understand
this man's anger. I
don't agree with killing
innocent people, but how
long do these groups
expect to be able to get
away with spiritually
abusing people before
they have had enough? I
hope this wakes up some
of their membership.
Also, I have heard that
this particular offshoot
was started by
Rod Meredith because
he was "kicked out" of
his last church (Global
Church of God) for
stealing money from the
members! Imagine that.
I was so angry when I
heard this news, that I
almost e-mailed the
Living Church of God and
asked them if they were
happy now. Too many
people have been hurt by
these Armstrong
churches! Thankfully, I
have found a church home
and am able to raise my
son as a Christian
without flashbacks or
anxiety attacks!
You are doing a true
service with your
website. --M. W. from
Minnesota
A Good Interview
Regarding LCG on Wisconsin
Public Radio: March 17, 2005 There
is a good interview
(3-16-05) about the beliefs and
psychological mindset of LCG
(and other apocalyptic
groups) on Radio
Wisconsin (Ideas
Network) at:
http://www.wpr.org/webcasting/ideas_audioarchives.cfm?Code=dun The tape can be ordered
by phoning
1-800-747-7444 and ask
for 316D. The date was
3-16-05, 9:00 AM.
--Former WCG member
Comment: The only
thing that is not
brought out is that
totalistic groups are often
led by a leader whose
goal is to control and
exploit the members for
financial gain.
Beliefs Like Living
Church of God Holds are
Dangerous: March 17, 2005
I have been feeling like the reporters have dropped the ball and that
they are missing the bigger picture that these beliefs are dangerous.
Especially how they manipulate the members money wise and how they
scare them with making them so fearful. I am sure they don't know that
Gerald Flurry thinks he is
"Jesus." That is the next Waco in the making. The thought of GF
or RCM [Roderick C. Meredith] taking these
friends of mine to their " place of safety" is very creepy. Those fear
based sermons made that man snap. There is no excuse for what he did
but those leaders have some of that blood on their hands because of
their doomsday sermons. I was so shocked I thought it was going to turn out
to be PCG at first. It is scary
because [some of my relatives] are current members there
and they believe RCM that it is the end and they should stock up and
be ready for spiritual battle. It just sounds too eerie like the days
leading up to the Waco compound disaster. --Formerly in LCG
ESN is Only One Really
Trying to Help:
March 18, 2005
ESN is the only one I know of that is really trying to help. I
guess those still attending pretty much hate us who have left, huh?
Really pretty sad. Jesus stood His ground as with the Pharisees and
didn't mince words, but He does all in love and hope for their freedom
from the religion that bound them to mistreat others. It's amazing
to me how members can lash out thinking the way they do and hurt
others. I wish they would "think" and realize that this isn't love.
--Former WCG member
Comment: As a former WCG member expressed to us recently, "The mindset of those who retain Armstrongism compels them
to strike out as they do."
Cults Move Into a
Deeper Level of
Dysfunction:March 18, 2005
People from the
WCG think they are
mainstream and don't
think they need any
help. I believe
that cults (like any
dysfunctional
addiction) will move
into a deeper
level. They start
out with a leader,
who starts out
having a vision, but
isn't too crazy
yet. As time goes
on, the leader
begins to become the
central focus and
begins to enforce
more and more crazy
ideas. The final
stage before mass
destruction is
building the
compound and to have
totalistic control
over the members. Gerald Flurry is
definitely moving in
this direction. It's not a question
of "if"--it's a
matter of "when"--they will spiral out
of control and die. People who come out
of these groups know
how choking this
situation is, and
are glad to get out
of it. The Ratzmann
tragedy will pale in
comparison to what's
going to happen.
--Former WCG member
LCG Minister John Ogwyn
Resorts to Untrue
Statements: March 18, 2005 Following are untrue statements made by
John
Ogwyn [minister of the Living Church of God] as reported in the March
18, 2005, editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
Ogwyn used Thursday's appearance to counter
comments from some local members of the church who said members
were discouraged from seeking secular treatment for emotional
problems. Psychiatric counseling "certainly has its place," Ogwyn
said, and is not banned by the church. The church also has no ban
on medication, he said.
Ogwyn said the church
does not restrict members to dating and marrying within the
church. He said, however, that choosing a mate who practices the
same religion would likely lead to a more harmonious marriage.
Some local members have said that outside dating was strongly
discouraged and that Ratzmann had been frustrated by his inability
to find a wife within the church.
You and I know the above public statements by Pastor
Ogwyn are simply not the truth. He is refusing to take a stand
for what he believes and preaches and is taking cover for
treatment of members that could cause the church legal problems.
Local members have
said those with emotional problems are told to consult first with
the local pastor, and some have said seeking outside professional
help is actively discouraged...
The local members are
far more honest than the ministry. What an example!!!
As we well know,
members were constructively forbidden seeking professional
help.
If those churches are
so afraid to honestly state their doctrines publicly at a time like
this, how would they ever hold up under persecution? --Former
WCG member
Comment:
Read 3-19-05
letter below from former LCG member which shows that John Ogwyn
is twisting LCG teachings.
Update: John
Ogwyn died June 14,
2005.
Where
in the "H"
is
Meredith?!
March 18, 2005
Is it just me, or has anybody
else been wondering where
in the "H" Meredith has been?!
I mean, if he were really God's Apostle, one would think that he
would have been on the first flight out
to Wisconsin to comfort his dear parishioners. If he really cared
about the sheep, he would have been the first one there. It's
been almost a week since the shootings, and nobody has heard a
peep out of him. Doesn't anybody else think this strange??? I
see he learned well from HWA and the Receivership [1979]. When
things go bad, let your underlings take care of it and make
yourself scarce. --Former WCG member
Comment: The Milwaukee Sentinel
interview with John Ogwyn (above) said Rod Meredith, was in
Milwaukee for "some" of the Ratzmann shooting victims' funerals.
I Hope This Tragedy Will Wake
Some People Up:
March 18, 2005
I grew up in the
WCG in the 50's and 60's. I think your site is wonderful. The
shooting in Wisconsin got me started looking for things about the
"church" and I happened across your site as well as others. It is
nice to know others feel the way I do.
It has taken me years to get over the "church" and I still have
trouble with it from time to time. I just wish my parents who are
in the LCG would see the light. But I highly doubt that as they
are in their middle 80's and have been in for so very long. It
really brought a fright to my sister and me when we heard of
the shootings in Wisconsin as my parents on occasion go there for
services and at first we were not sure if they were in Wisconsin this
last week end and if that was where they go when they visit. Thank
God they were not there and that is not the place they visit.
What a tragedy that was at the Brookfield Church, but I hope it
will wake some people up. --Child survivor of WCG
I Feel Rod Meredith is a Controlling
Monster:
March 18, 2005
I want these cults exposed,
especially those like LCG and PCG.
I have heard sermons by Rod Meredith when I was a member of Global
[Meredith's first group after he left WCG]. And also later when a
member of UCG, my husband I went
to a LCG feast site and heard his sermons there. I feel he is a
controlling monster. His sermons are disgusting and filled with
threats. Even as a member of Global I disliked his sermons and
disagreed with his take on Scripture. As I member of UCG, I left
his sermons crying because they were so hateful. --Former
member of GCG, LCG, & UCG.
Living
Church of God is Putting a Different Twist on Their Teachings!
March 19, 2005
After reading the interview by LCG minister John Ogwyn [see
3-18-05 letter above], I can see that LCG is certainly
putting a different twist on their teachings!
Anyone who dared to date outside the church, for instance,
was subject to extreme censure, if not being disfellowshipped.
Many have been "put on suspension" for daring to think they
could choose their own mate. If Terry Ratzmann didn't feel this
pressure to conform to marrying only in the church, why didn't
he look elsewhere? Others believed that he was desperate for a
wife.
Regarding seeking psychiatric treatment, all who have been part
of any of the Armstrong churches have felt the displeasure of
the ministry (sometimes unspoken, but reflected in the face)
if a member even suggested that seeking counsel with a
psychiatrist was an option.
It appeared to the members that the ministry thought themselves
capable of taking care of any problem, regardless of
their training, because the minister thought he could find the
answer to any problem in the Bible. Good counseling requires
professional training. It doesn't come from the pat answers one
may have learned from Ambassador college or at the feet of one
trained there. --Former LCG member
Comment: Members in
the old WCG were to date and marry "only within the church."
This is also true in the LCG. Read:
The Sad Singles Scene.
Why Ex-WCGers Are Capable of Commenting on LCG Members:
March 20, 2005
I saw a negative comment about
the Geraldo Rivera show on line where the person in one of the
splinters was criticizing how an ex-WCGer could speak and know
anything about the LCG. Let's see....maybe because almost all
LCGer's were formerly WCGer's? --Former WCG member
Comment:
Maybe also because LCG's teachings are almost identical to the old
WCG's teachings under Herbert
W. Armstrong. Rod Meredith was an
evangelist in
the WCG,
exiting at the
time of the
changes and
started Global
Church of God.
For more info on
Meredith,
read:
What Happens if I Join
Roderick Meredith's Living Church of God?
It's a Wonder This Hasn't Happened Before:
March 21, 2005
After reading more about the shooter, Terry Ratzmann, the
thought occurred to me that it's a wonder that anything like
this hasn't happened before. I'm only surprised that it didn't
happen in the PCG rather than
the LCG. The PCG by far
has the meanest and most abusive ministry out of all the
splinter cults of the WCG. And it is filled with quite a few
men similar to Terry Ratzmann: single, frustrated, and abused by
the ministry. Many of these men have poor social skills and are
emotionally unbalanced. They need help. I don't advocate
psychiatry because I believe that it is itself an abusive
industry. They too often prescribe dangerous psychotropic
drugs, which only mask the symptoms, because it's big business. (See
http://www.drugawareness.org) But there are so many Bible based therapists out there who can
help people like Terry Ratzmann. Of course the ministry will
not refer anyone to an outside counselor, as you know.
In the PCG I knew three different men who were taken into
another room after services and "dressed down" by two ministers
like a Drill Sergeant dressing down a recruit at boot camp. The
power hungry local minister complained to HQ that these men
weren't respecting his authority and it was hindering his
ability to bring unity to the congregation. It was of course
nonsense. These men just weren't kissing his ass they way he
expected everyone to do. He also didn't like me, but for some
reason I didn't get the Drill Sergeant treatment. Anyway,
Edmond, Oklahoma actually sent down another minister to assist
the local minister with this "problem." They would take the
"insubordinate" man
into another room, make him sit in a chair while they positioned
themselves on each side of him slightly in front. Then one at a
time they would scream and yell at the top of their lungs and
threaten him with suspension and disfellowshipment if they
didn't "respect God's government" properly. One of the men
indeed did get disfellowshipped because he didn't give the
"proper answer." This particular man also had a heart condition
and had to take nitro regularly. Halfway into the yelling match
his heart started showing signs of an attack. He had to quickly
pull a pill out of his pocket and take it. One of the ministers
looked nervous when he saw this, the other one just kept right
on screaming. Ironically, if you call it that, 2 out of these 3
men regularly carried guns with them. They always had a gun
either in their briefcase or in their car at all times. (There
is a conceal and carry permit law in this state.) They were not
emotionally or mentally unbalanced though, so the ministers
lived. But I bet they would sh** a brick if they knew now how
close by a gun was while they were unmercifully abusing these
guys.
So you see why I say it is incredible that a shooting event
hasn't occurred in the PCG. I wonder if they'll start being
nicer to the unbalanced brethren now. Probably not. Perhaps
some more will have to lose their lives because of an out of
control Hitlerian ministry.
One last
thing, there was an incident up in Charlotte, North Carolina
when a man I didn't know had a handgun in his briefcase. It was
discovered by an elder because the man left his briefcase behind
and the elder opened it to see who it belonged to. The next
week Flurry gave an announcement saying that bringing guns to
church was prohibited. He said that you never know if someone
who is upset at something he hears in a sermon will take a gun
and start shooting. Is that ironic or what?
--Former WCG/PCG member
in Texas
My
Experience With Global and Living Church of God Was a
Horrible One:
March 21, 2005
I was a child in WCG years ago. Several years ago, I attended
Global and then married my husband quickly and then it split
to Living Church of God. I have to say, my experience with
Global/Living was a horrible one. I did not understand why
everyone was so nasty in a passive aggressive way. We left the
"church" when it changed, as it was really crazy, people keep
calling Meredith, "God's Anointed." That freaked me out. They
really had this worship of him. I would sit there in that
hotel room watching that video, and they cut those videos all
the time, which was strange--watching him speak, then the tape
is cut or edited, and then he was talking about something
else.
We walked out of sermons. In fact, another fellow in our
group was being treated very badly by some of those deacons
and elders, so during the sermon, my husband and I were
outside talking to him and trying to be his friend. Well,
would you believe, the following week, there was a whole
sermon on all of us: "how rude it is to walk out of a sermon"
and on and on. We were not there, but when I heard what they
did, I was so mad. How rude of him, this elder. We never went
back. If Terry did not shoot the ones he did last week, what
if the sermon in his church this week was about, "It is
rude to walk
out of a
sermon.
Don't you
know how
important I
am?"
Poor Terry. I was so angry, too, though not that angry. Those men fight with each other often. They attacked my
husband. A friend who went there was in a shoving match at
church one day with an elder. Those men are truly downright
mean. Really mean. I am not surprised this happened, but I
just feel so bad for Terry. I know how it feels to be treated
so badly. I never felt that church owned me, I would not
endure their treatment.
My husband and I do not feel that God is chained to the
pulpit. Anyone who wants God can find him. I just feel
that LCG will get away with this--and that makes me angry.
That church is a den of vipers. Literally, though, there were
some dear folks in there too. But they are convinced that Rod
Meredith is the "anointed one." I know it sounds crazy, but I
cannot help but feel that Terry was a victim too. I pray that
God will have mercy on him, though. God is fair, and knows the
whole story. I don't know all, but if it is like I think it
is, I hope God has mercy on Terry. I don't think he has
committed an unpardonable sin.
When I married my husband in Global, I knew that I needed to
get baptized and be a church member, but if I did not want to,
no one was going to tell me I could not get married to this
man. Who are they? I am an adult, he was an adult, so, if we
want to get married, we would. It was just kind of an
unspoken rule that I needed to be a church member before they
would marry me and my husband. Just my two cents. --Former WCG, GCG, LCG, and every other group but not
UCG or
PCG. Today we are COG (7th
day).
News Sources Dropped the
LCG Story Like a Hot Potato:
March 21, 2005
It seems that since news sources have been notified of the
LCG's cult status, they've dropped the story like the
proverbial hot potato. I figured they would. It'll just
disappear into obscurity until someone else in one of these
Armstrong groups succumbs to the pressures of
these high-pressure control organizations and has an emotional
breakdown. Then the news crews will pop up and report on the
damage, but they will do nothing to expose the source. I
guess that pointing out that a religion isn't really a
"religion" at all, but a controlling cult just isn't
"politically correct."
I don't trust the media. They either sensationalize stories
to sell their "air time" (like the shark attacks a few months
ago that come to find out were statistically no worse than
previous summers) or just plain lie. Sometimes I feel like
they're jackals who are there when the kill is fresh (pardon
the graphic analogy), but soon go off to find "fresh meat." I
always take their reports with a big grain of salt. What
really bugs me in this situation is their lack of resolve to
dig deeper into the LCG and what prompted Ratzmann to do what
he did. Literally overnight, the story has just disappeared. --Impacted by loved one in PCG
LCG Members Tell Truth,
but LCG Leaders Cover Up that Truth:March 22, 2005
I found out that Chandra Frazier, the LCG member we saw many
times on the news stating what happened during the shooting
in Milwaukee and who also said that a man sitting next to
her was shot dead, has left the Living Church of God.
She said that she couldn't help but feel that because of the
LCG's teaching that members shouldn't visit psychologists or
doctors for treatment of depression, etc., that this
contributed to Terry Ratzmann getting no help and doing what
he did. She had mentioned this in an earlier interview, but
one of the administers said it wasn't true in a later
interview. She in return said that she was leaving because
of this teaching. Those of us who are former COG members
know who's telling the truth.
If you listen to the various interviews that were done since
this tragedy happened, the members tell the truth of how it
really is in the LCG, but the administrators/leaders quickly
cover up this true information and say that it isn't true.
Well, apparently Ms. Frazier had enough of this cover-up and
lying and has left. I can only hope that she doesn't enter
another splinter group cult and can see them all for what
they really are, liars.
Also it was discovered on a Living Church of God forum that
the LCG administration sent a letter to all the LCG
ministers stating that they were to inform the members to
have no contact whatsoever with the media. Wonder why?
--Former member WCG Reply: "Information control" was always
prevalent in WCG. For instance, at the Feast of Tabernacles, when the media
would come around to ask questions, members had been instructed by the
leadership not to give out
any information, but instead tell them: "The ministers will
be glad to answer your questions."
Read:
How Did
Worldwide
Church of
God
Instruct
Ministers
to Deal
With
Health and
Medical
Problems?
(to see
how they
tried to
avoid
prosecution
in case
someone
died)
These
polices
are
still
used by
some in
the totalistic,
authoritative
WCG
offshoots.
Headquarters Kept Most
of Us in the Dark:March 22, 2005
What a wake-up call -- the shooting in Wisconsin. I
have been out of WCG for 26 years. I feel God mercifully
relocated me to an area where there was no church. I
studied Dr. Martin's literature at home and concentrated
on relearning the Bible. This new insight into all the
garbage is very painful. Even though I worked at
Headquarters they kept most of us in the dark, and being
a good little member, I didn't search for dirt. My
sister and I (both ex-members) are feeling the same
shock, anger, pain, humiliation, etc. "How could
intelligent people be so duped?" --Former WCG member
Read:
How
can
intelligent
people
become
deceived? (Q&A)
Rod Meredith
Like a
Chameleon:March 23, 2005 Did you see what that person wrote in
Christianity Today about Rod Meredith being a
"quiet and gentle soul" and would never hurt anyone?
And this person claims to have been in the WCG for 5
years. When I was in WCG this "quiet, gentle soul" was
known to escort "liberal ministers" by force, off of the
stage at Pasadena." Witnesses have said this was not
done in a "quiet or gentle manner." When I was in LCG in
2001, Meredith was like a chameleon and could change at
will. He was very slick and I witnessed him lie whenever
it served his purposes. Although Terry Ratzmann will be
held responsible for his actions by God, we cannot deny
that his life would have been completely different had
he not been a part of this group. --Former member WCG,
LCG
A Link
to a Very Informative
Article on the LCG Shooting:March 28, 2005 I thought you would like to see this
very informative article on Terry Ratzmann and the LCG
shooting written by Larry J. Chavez, former senior hostage
negotiator for the Sacramento Police Department. It is
here:
http://members.aol.com/endwpv/churchcase.doc When I read this article, I remembered the cult saying
that seeking professional help for emotional problems
and depression was wrong and that it left you open to
being p |