Letter Archives

Alex Harrison and PCG's Psychological Tools:

January 2, 2007

I read with concern the letter dated December 31, 2006 regarding the state of the congregation in England and Europe with regards to John Durrad's disfellowshipment. I sure can believe the minister had no fear about breaking God's commandment to "call off" attending what is supposed to be their supposed "one and only true" Church Sabbath Services. The author of this letter asks what they fear? The answer is that the people will discover the truth for what it really is, and the evil therein. Any question that is remotely threatening in any sense to Alex Harrison's leadership, or position of power, in his eyes must be stamped out immediately. It's so easy to assume it must have been the worst ever question or why else would someone be suspended, disfellowshipped and marked? But these ministers will kick someone out at the drop of a hat, knock them dead and leave them bleeding and dying on the ground. I'm guessing that those in the PCG today who haven't cottoned on to the fact that they can't ask questions are encouraged to do so precisely so they will be watched/ kicked out for informed decision making and thinking. Alex Harrison, that evil man of cunning, can sense immediately who is completely with the program and who is not, therefore those who do not follow blindly and bow down to him are on dangerous ground without even realizing it. Keeping the members uninformed, off balance and delivering contradictory information is such a sick, powerful, psychological tool, which he uses when shaking a region up like this! The PCG has lost it! And as much as everyone would like to believe, he's been "called" to HQ for a slap, that's one big joke. The only power high and mighty enough to deal with Gerald Flurry and Alex Harrison is God Himself, and that day will come. The day will come for every single one of them when they have to stand before the Great God. That day will come. --Former PCG Member

The Question Leading to John Durrad being Disfellowshipped:

January 7, 2007

The question which led to John Durrad being disfellowshipped was, "Who is the leader of the Laodicean church?" That obviously touched a raw spot, didn't it? --Australia

Read: Gerald Flurry Disfellowships PCG Minister John Durrad. (two letters from John Durrad; faxed to ESN) 

The Consequences of Gerald Flurry Answering the Question:

January 9, 2007

It seems rather odd to me that Flurry would want the man disfellowshipped who asked the question regarding who the human head of the Laodicean Church was. It would have been easy enough for Flurry to declare no one knew yet, or some other answer. Why such a response? He could have simply said something like it hadn't been "revealed" to him yet.

Come to think of it, it's a question he really can't answer in any way or manner. Funny once you stop and think about it. The "end time prophet" doesn't know who his end time counter part is. It could blow up everything. Yet John Durrad doesn't see the implications. 

The consequences of Flurry answering the question:  

1. If he says he doesn't know, then how can he say he is the candlestick representing Philadelphia? 

2. If he gives a name, and it later turns out he is wrong (don't forget he referred to Joe Tkach Sr. as the "man of sin"), then his credibility suffers further. 

3. If he says it hasn't been revealed to him by God (yet), then it would indicate: a) He isn't all that great a prophet, being "that" prophet, and: b) it would indicate the imminent end time isn't that imminent after all, seeing as this other end time leader has not been revealed. 

Nothing like talking yourself into a corner. --Bill Hohmann, author of Mystery of the Ages (a 2nd critical review)

Your Site is the Best:

January 15, 2007

I have been on literally dozens of sites that come up if you do an internet search on PCG or Philadelphia Church of God or Gerald Flurry. I even got to see the official PCG site that way (oh, wow, that was such excitement). Your site was one I added to my favourites because it was so good. I have been on it almost daily for a long while. I think its the best of them all. --Australia

Listen to God Rather Than Men:

January 17, 2007

My spouse (in PCG) and I got into a discussion about HWA's "God family" doctrine recently. I told her that nowhere did God say that He would ever make man little "god-lets." So she showed me two verses of Scripture, one was Revelation 1:6 (the verse about being "kings and priests"), to which I replied, "Right, so where does it say gods?" The another one she showed me was Genesis 1:26 (where God says, "Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness"). I told her that was totally irrelevant to any concept of the "god family." I then read to her verses from the book of Isaiah (Isaiah 42:8, 43:10, 44:6, and 44:8) where God says that there will be no other gods, and that He will not share His glory. (I had these verses marked in my Bible where I had been researching Armstrong's doctrines in the past.) I also made sure that I told her that she should prove man's writings by God's words, rather than the other way around. The discussion ended, and I went to the kitchen for a drink and said I was going to bed. She was still looking through her "Armstrongized" Bible, but didn't have anything to come back with. Neither of us were angry, and she acted like nothing had happened when she came on to bed. Discussing doctrines wasn't as important as getting it through her defenses that she needs to listen to God rather than men. I hope I planted some "seeds" of critical thinking. --Impacted by loved one in PCG

Comment: HWA taught that Jesus was "the second member of the God family." This doctrine of the "God family" is confronted in ESN's critical review of Mystery of the Ages, chapter two (and in other chapters).

Does Speculation Count?

January 20, 2007

In the February 2007 Royal Vision, "From The Editor" column, in Gerald Flurry's article, "Was Christ a Cult Leader?" it has this to say about an article that a "local newspaper" published in 1994:

"The reporter had this to say in his article: 'During the mid-1950s, he [Mr. Armstrong] published a pamphlet entitled, '1975 In Prophecy.' It warned of a worldwide nuclear war in 1972 and Christ's return three years later. ... When the world didn't end on schedule, Armstrong withdrew his pamphlet from circulation." I was asked about this statement before the article was published. I told the reporter that not one of Mr. Armstrong's critics could prove that statement about the book and they never have over the years! That is because Mr. Armstrong never said those events would occur on those dates. There was only speculation that those events could happen in that time period. I took the time to explain this in detail. The reporter still wrote the same statement without proof. And so the error is perpetuated without excuse! But reporters read such statements and often believe them because there are several critics  making these claims. If people hear a statement frequently enough, they often believe it."

In 1975 in Prophecy (which can be read online), HWA clearly put terror into his readers to believe that the years up until 1975 was all the time they had left. (Actually 1972 was to be the year the church fled to "the place of safety").  HWA declared, "All this is now only a few years off" and was to be "...before the anticipated push-button leisure-year of 1975 dawns upon us!" Remember, this booklet was first written in 1956!

Even if the exact words "nuclear war in 1972" are not found in HWA's 1975 in Prophecy booklet, why have such a title if he wasn't trying to target a date? I counted 38 incidences of the word "war" in that booklet, not counting 4 incidences of  "wars." Now shouldn't that tell us something about the fear he was promulgating?

Flurry does not give the whole truth in that RV article. --Former believer in HWA

Read: footnote #2 in Did Herbert Armstrong Set Dates? about HWA's "speculations."

Church of God's Faithful is a Splinter of PCG:

January 22, 2007

I was informed that John Durrad has now joined a PCG splinter named Church of God's Faithful, led by Robert G. Ardis, in Eutawville, S. C. I think Ardis has said that Jesus Christ has returned or made an appearance, just like Flurry has claimed. --Exiter

Reply: The Church of God's Faithful incorporated in September 1997 and is led by Robert G. Ardis who was disfellowshipped from PCG that same year. "Letters" on their site, written by Ardis and former PCG members to Gerald Flurry and PCG members, will give reasons why they split. 

CGF holds to several of PCG's (and HWA's) teachings; however, they veer from others. For instance, Ardis teaches that the Place of Safety will be somewhere in Saudi Arabia, not Petra, and that PCG has become the Laodicean church. CGF believes that HWA was the "end-time Elijah" and "took the gospel of the Kingdom to the entire world," but he had a "few inaccuracies" in his teachings, and they (CGF) have received "tremendously important new truths." Ardis teaches that Christ secretly returned like a thief on the Feast of Trumpets in 1997, but that He will return visibly at the First Resurrection (which will occur on Pentecost). CGF says this secret return was the "great mystery" that was accomplished, and that we are now in the Day of the Lord. These teachings will appeal to certain exiters seeking "truth" instead of focusing on the Lord Jesus Christ (who is Truth) and learning more of His grace and redemption for all. (See offshoots.)

PCG Member Gives Reason For Cutting Off:

January 28, 2007

Below is the email we received from my husband's mother "cutting off" contact with us. We have been in contact with you before. You may leave names in place if you wish. It has been a bit over one year since this email was sent and we have not had any contact from either my husband's mom or sister since. In regards to email she sent to our oldest daughter, we did not tell our children that they could not talk with their grandmother. They are older teens and we let them choose what they wanted to do. They have not had contact with her because they chose not to. --J. D.

Dear T. and J.,

I was surprised when you did not call me, (found out you were sick) at least to find out why I have to cut off contact with you, for now, I hope. It is not something I would want to do, except for this one reason.

I believe that we are very close to the end, as we have always said, but now I believe it is imminent - of course depending on God's plan, what we think is imminent may take more time than what I can know.

Nevertheless, we believe in my church that we are giving our last warning before the Great Tribulation, for those who know about the truth of God and were baptized into God's truth it is significant because going into the tribulation will be devastating and only 50 % of God's people will make it, by dying for HIM and the Truth. I prefer a place of safety, myself and wish you would also, since the Tribulation will be a time of great horrendous suffering, something I do not want for you, and my grand children. This is my way of saying - Please take the warning, and if you don’t - with all my heart I want you to know at least I tried, I don’t ever want you to think I didn't try to warn you.

Love, agape, MOM

PS I sent this to B. also:

Dear B.,

This is a letter I sent to your Dad, B., I hope he reads it to the family. I really do not have to cut myself off from you or C. and TJ but I know your parents would probably not like me to have contact with you, because of their own reasons, so unless they give me permission I will respect them.
love Grandma Dot

[the copy of the 1st email followed]

Comment: For decades HWA preached, "the end is imminent," "we are giving our last warning," "only 50% of God's people will make it," "place of safety," etc. Thousands of Bible-based, apocalyptic cults have been proclaiming almost the same message non-stop. An understanding of mind control and exploitive groups is vital in order to break free from this kind of false fear, lies and bondage which is needlessly ensnaring and harming many innocent people and their families every year.

One of the Hardest Things is to Admit You Have been Wrong:

February 2, 2007

Reading the article on how Herbert Armstrong recruited people felt like I was reading about my own experience.

I wonder how many of us would have continued in our "studies" if we had been aware of all the false prophecies that HWA had made in the forties and fifties? [Refer to Marion J. McNair's book which covers HWA's many false prophecies] Of course, not one word was uttered about any of them to me.

By the time I walked into services for the very first time, I was already so convinced that this had to be the "one true church," that I overlooked many evidences to the contrary. In fact, I think it would have been very embarrassing to admit that I had spent so much time and effort just to be made a fool of.

It is one of the hardest things to do, to admit that you have been totally wrong. I think that deep down, I knew that something was really off kilter from the very beginning, but I had invested too much of my identity in the WCG to turn away.

Looking back, I wish with all my heart that I had followed my instincts and left in the beginning. The passage of time only makes it harder when you finally admit to yourself that you have been totally buffaloed. 

Keep up the good work! I hope that many who read your site are spared the pain that only gets worse over time. --Former WCG/PCG member

Comment: We were spiritually betrayed. Also read our article, How I "Proved" Herbert Armstrong was God's Apostle, which agrees that it hurts to admit we could be wrong, yet we can't live in denial. Each of the author's points is examined.

I Have a Copy of John Amos' Death Certificate:

February 5, 2007

I've been reading through the letters on your website and noticed several letters mentioning an article titled "What did John Amos Really Die of?" When I saw that, I immediately remembered that I have in my possession a copy of John Amos' death certificate in a file box in the back of my closet. You see, John Amos was my father-in-law at the time of his death. In case there is still confusion as to what he died of, I will quote the death certificate: Immediate Cause = CVA/ Respiratory Failure due to (or as a consequence of) Meningitis Bacterial and also due to Sinusitis. I hope that clears it up for anyone who wishes to know. Thanks for your web-page, it is truly helpful for all those affected by the abuses taking place in the PCG.

You may post this if you wish and also can use my name with my permission

Sincerely, --Kathryn 'Amos' Keel

PCG Has Become "Mr. Flurry":

February 9, 2007

We recently spoke with our local minister and informed him that our family would no longer attend services because it seems that the PCG is more concerned with promoting Stephen Flurry's book and keeping up with the traditions of Mr. Armstrong as opposed to speaking of the spiritual power we can have through a real faith in Jesus Christ. It seems that the church has become Mr. Flurry. No one can question his decisions; if they do they have a "government problem." I guess they forget this is exactly what he did when he question the ruling of the WCG (but "that's different"). The Bible says that no one should come between us and Christ. Why then do we have to support Mr. Flurry as he supposedly follows Christ?!

We just want to have that personal relationship the way Paul did. That's the only thing that will save us, and by worshipping Christ we automatically worship God. That's the way the Father wants it. The Father has given all authority to Him because He is worthy. PCG doesn't speak of this. Just blindly follow orders, don't speak about their racist policies, report on those who are beginning to think for themselves and you'll be alright in the PCG. --Ex member of PCG

Deserters Need to Be Shot?

February 21, 2007

Gerald Flurry believes he is the messenger to the Laodicean era (it was in his recent sermon). He screams out out in sermons: "The Laodiceans are spiritual perverts!"

The only thing is, all those poor, lovely, people in the PCG are totally deceived and truly believe they are following Christ.

He also said the people who left the PCG were now Laodiceans and deserters in this spiritual war. In fact, I once heard him scream out something like, "They are deserters and need to be shot!!" It horrified everyone but no one would utter a word for fear of being "put out."

He does a lot of screaming in his sermons in order to frighten people.

This is one of the many reasons people are leaving the PCG. --A. W. (U.K.)

 I Remember the "Deserters Need to be Shot" Statement:

February 22, 2007

I remember the sermon where Flurry said something about "deserters need to be shot" because it really started me thinking about what is truth. The sermon could have been in 2005 fall, or perhaps spring.

I wish I could be more specific. But in anger, I threw out everything except Malachi's Message (1996 edition). If I would have kept my notes, I could find the exact date it was played in our area, because I wrote that statement in large characters across the whole of my page that day.

However, ministers were very careful to not tell us when the sermon was given at HQ. We were not allowed to have a library in the U.S. church area, or anywhere, as far as I knew. They had made an announcement because they did not want us checking up on what they said. Their excuse was "We don't want the Laodiceans getting hold of the tapes/CDs"

Perhaps someone else remembers that horrifying statement and exactly when it was made. Flurry's tapes/CDs were to be played in all churches. --Former member of PCG

Flurry's Exact Words About Deserters Being Shot:

February 22, 2007

Following is by "that" false prophet himself:

"And those people who leave the PCG and have been here, well, if you just want to look at it the way it really is, we're in a war and they are deserters, and in the civil wars, war, deserters were shot! So its not a small little sin." 

These are Flurry's exact words and it was said about a local elder who left PCG.

The sermon was entitled, "The Mantle of Elijah" and was dated March 8, 2003. The above quote appeared on tape 2, side 1. It was a longer sermon (two tapes), as Flurry would often go overtime when he gave sermons with subjects that he deemed "very important." (In the multitude of words, sin is not lacking!) He would send out the tapes (and later the CDs when they started using CDs) marked as must play immediately, or words to that effect.

I hope that this has been helpful. --Jim Kazimir (Former member/deacon in PCG; author of Ministerial Evils in PCG) 

Comment: The March 8, 2003 sermon by Flurry has been mailed to ESN.

PCG Did NOT Win a Victory in the WCG vs. PCG Court Case:

February 23, 2007

According to the court documents, Worldwide Church of God first sued PCG in 1997 to get a temporary restraining order on PCG distributing HWA's works while WCG owned the copyright. WCG dismissed the suit without prejudice (meaning they could file again) shortly thereafter. Then, WCG filed again later in 1997. (That is the case that lasted until 2003, including WCG losing, appealing to the Ninth circuit and winning there, and the case going back to district court for determination of damages.)

The reason the WCG sued was to stop PCG from distributing HWA works in violation of WCG's copyright. In 1998, both PCG and WCG won the right to designate documents as "confidential" and there was an order clarifying that (which both WCG and PCG agreed to).

In 1999, the district court granted summary judgment to PCG and charged WCG almost $300,000 in attorney's fees and costs, but stayed WCG having to pay until after the appeal to the next higher court--the Ninth Circuit. In Sept. 2000, the Ninth said the district court was wrong and told the district court to reverse itself, enter a preliminary injunction in favor of WCG, stopping PCG from distributing HWA's works and said PCG had to pay WCG's costs (about $2,000-$3,000). The Ninth also directed the district court to hold a hearing to determine how much money the PCG would have to pay the WCG for damages. Then the case got transferred to a new district judge, and in March 2001 she granted a preliminary injunction prohibiting PCG from distributing HWA's works.

From March, 2001 on, the WCG stopped PCG from distributing HWA's works and now the issue was how much money in damages the PCG would have to pay WCG for violating its copyright. The case kept getting set and reset for a damages hearing and there was a lot of wrangling back and forth as to who could testify and what evidence will be admitted. The case got taken off the docket a few times because both parties asked that it be because they were in settlement talks. Those talks broke down in Dec. 2002, and the case went back on the document for a damages hearing.

Then, in April 2003, it all went away because WCG and PCG reached an agreement in which PCG bought the copyrights to HWA's works from WCG.

So the facts are, Worldwide Church of God sued Philadelphia Church of God and lost at the district court level, then won on appeal, then was awaiting an amount from the court as to how much PCG would have to pay WCG and instead took money from PCG to dismiss the case and let PCG restart publishing of HWA's works and for damages that the court would have ordered PCG to pay.

PCG didn't win, it lost in court and was going to be ordered to pay WCG damages, but WCG and PCG agreed on an amount, so the judge never decided the damages issue. There is no way that can honestly be characterized as a victory for the PCG.

--Helen Ligget, Attorney at Law

Comment: ESN can testify to the accuracy of this letter, as we have copies of all of the court documents pertaining to this case (which are public record).

We Were Told to Destroy the CDs:

February 27, 2007

While I was in PCG, as a "so called leading" man and deacon, I would receive a backup copy of the CDs with the messages/sermonettes/sermons/special music on them. The minister would received a CD, also, and the backup was sent to me in case the original, sent to the minister, got lost in the mail or was late.

Having been truly totally indoctrinated back when I attended PCG, I never once thought to keep copies of the CDs. We were instructed to destroy the CDs after they were played. I never put two and two together and thought about why they wanted the CDs destroyed. Of course, we at one time had tape/CD libraries so that brethren could check them out and re-listen to the messages. It is painfully obvious to me now why they instituted their policy of no more libraries and destroy the CDs. Despite what they said about not wanting the messages to fall into the hands of the "Laodiceans," they did not want anyone to be able to really prove all things and they also feared law suits. Too bad that they do not comprehend the Scripture that says that their is no fear in love and love casts out all fear (paraphrase of I John 4:8).

I seem to vaguely remember Flurry saying what he said about shooting the so-called "spiritual perverts and Laodiceans," but it did not register with me at the time. Shame on me for being so spiritually asleep, but thank God for opening my eyes.

--Jim Kazimir (Former member/deacon in PCG; author of Ministerial Evils in PCG)

True Love Lacking in PCG Members:

March 6, 2007

I just wanted to say thanks for your website and for all the letters you put up there for people to read. It helps knowing there are others out there who have been through the exact same thing as I have.

I've recently left PCG and it's shocking how my so called "friends" won't have anything to do with me as it will cause problems for them. Out of all things, that's what cuts the deepest. Maybe others have heard the same statement: "I love you (or I care for you), but I can't have anything to do with you anymore," and, "You're in my prayers," or "I'll pray for your repentance." How would they feel or respond if God said that same statement to them?? It would be a different story then. I'm sure they'd be pleading.

PCG rambles on about having love for each other, but they choose to forget about the very scriptures that talk about brotherly love and "laying down our lives" for our friends and brothers. This is what Christ did. Isn't that the same example we are told to follow? How is what any of these members act in PCG godly? God doesn't get rid of people out of His family and refuse to have anything to do with them again!! That's not love! So what gives PCG people the right to do that to people?

I also read the Feb. 27 letter about the CDs being destroyed and I can completely support that email as I'm aware of the same thing happening. Gerald Flurry told local ministers years ago to keep records of who was getting what CDs, and to keep track of it all, until members were no longer allowed to even borrow them out anymore. I thought it was interesting that the Scripture was quoted "Perfect love casts out fear" [I John 4:8], as I've had an unknown type of fear and I've often thought about that Scripture. If you really love a person, fear should not exist in that relationship, but it often does. I know how this sort of fear can really became a part of who you are and it takes a long time to feel free again.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts with others out there! --G. A. (Exiter of PCG)

The Absence of Jesus Christ in PCG:

March 8, 2007

My personal decision to leave the PCG was the discerning of the absence of Jesus Christ. I sat in church many times and counted the number of times Christ's name was spoken of vs. Herbert Armstrong, and Herbert Armstrong always won.

Interesting enough, I reviewed transcripts of the December 17th Key of David program entitled, "Christ Declared the Father," and in it Mr. Flurry makes this statement:

"It's the Father's name that we honor. We honor His name above Christ's, above everything because He's the Head of the Family. Christ has a marvelous responsibility, as well, but He's not the Head of the Family."

Well, what about John 5:23 that says: "That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father." (Some translations use the word, "equally.") In the KOD program, Mr. Flurry kept referring to "the name of the Father" and "the Fathers name." In Phil. 2:9 [speaking of Christ] it states "...God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name." My study Bible lexicon says this about the word "name": "the substitute or representative of a person; is used for the person himself, whether divine or human."

If it appears there's no love in PCG, then perhaps there's no Christ. Sure, they will speak of Him, especially during the upcoming spring holy days, but I truly believe, and obviously, just from Flurry's statement alone, that the PCG government denies the power thereof. (2 Tim. 3:5) --X PCG member!

Comment: What Flurry will not emphasize is that Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh (See Col. 2:9; Jn. 1:1, 14, Heb. 1:3, I Tim. 3:16, etc.), and Rev. 5:12-13 states it is He who is worthy to receive glory and honour and power forever. (Also see Rev. 19:7.) The entire Bible centers on Him, not on Herbert Armstrong.

Marvin Campbell Tells Wife to Divorce Me:

March 28, 2007

I emailed you within the last year about my wife and her dealings in PCG, and it has come about that after all the abuse they gave to her she is following their (Mr. Campbell's) advice to divorce me. I was wondering if you have any knowledge of others who have suffered as my family has ... In any case I would consider giving my permission to you for others to contact me about my ordeal. Thanks, --R. S.

Comment: This man has been put in touch with others. Read: Marvin Campbell One of PCG's Cruelest Enforcers of "Government" (3-22-04 email to ESN)

No One in PCG Makes Their Own Choices:

April 3, 2007

My adult children were recently told they would be suspended for talking to me as I'm not a member of the Philadelphia Church. My daughter was told she could not have any further contact with me or any sort of relationship with me or she would be disfellowshipped from "the family" (meaning the "church"). While the Philadelphia Church has become a type of family to her, I am her family. I can't understand why they would be told this, other than the PCG wants some sort of claim or ownership on them.

I am really angry this has been suggested to them and that my children have been put into a situation of having to comply to PCG's demand and to have no contact with me, or they can no longer be part of "the church." I am really concerned for them to continue going to PCG. I love them too much to see them go through this.

I hope and pray they choose of their own accord to leave this group as I see how tense they are after they have been to services. No one in PCG owns the right to make their own choices. They are ridiculed and influenced to do what PCG wants them to do, even if they don't agree, and they are influenced and controlled in every part of their lives. I hope they get out before it's too late. --A. J.

Children Feel Trapped in PCG:

(2nd email from person above)

April 5, 2007

Hi,

Thanks for your email and your response. Your articles are very good and really help me to understand why people are compelled to stay in these groups. I felt the same way once too. I was in the WCG for many years and my children were raised in the WCG. However, I no longer attend any church group. I believe the PCG ministry believes I am a threat to them as my children talk to me about how they feel trapped in PCG, but they don't know where else to go, or what to do with their lives now if they leave PCG. They are also in their early twenties. I'm just thankful that my children have never considered cutting me off and cutting contact with me.

Thanks again, --A. J.

Reply:  When we feel "trapped," we have surrendered the power to make our own decisions. Thoughts of wondering "where will I go?" are very common. Members don't have to go anywhere, but take time to rest at home and read and understand what they were involved in. But many have become "religious addicts" in the group and so they often search for something similar to replace the void they experience after leaving. When they don't understand how mind control works, they don't comprehend how fear phobias have been programmed into their minds for the purpose of making them compliant. It has nothing to do with "God." Your children are young and have a chance to make a better life for themselves. You can guide them, but you can't force them to leave. The decision has to be theirs. Read: How Do People Get Out of Religious Cults?

Another Young Person Facing Death in PCG:

April 14, 2007

Hello,

I spoke to a good friend of mine still attending the PCG, and she told me that a young woman, about 30, who used to be my roommate when I was also in PCG, has had cancer in her jaw and it is spreading into her brain. The woman is choosing to rely on anointing and forgo medical treatment. Even my friend said "she is going to die." This is one more young person facing an early and painful death and, thanks to the strict teachings of the PCG, has missed out on many great life experiences.

My heart breaks for this young woman. She deserved better, and it angers me to think of how her death will be played up as a beautiful sacrifice of faith when all it really is is a tragic waste.

Thanks, --Gretchen Blaize (Former PCG member)

Members to Develop the Faith to Face Death:

April 24, 2007

Here is what Alex Harrison faxed to all ministers in the Australasian region of the PCG on Oct 31, 2001. I'm not sure if it was Harrison's words in the fax, but it may have all come from PCG Headquarters.

"To all Ministers

"PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL

"Mr. Gerald Flurry would like to go ahead with the plan to play the 2001 Ministerial Conference lecture tapes entitled "Developing The Faith To Face Death" in all the church areas beginning after the Feast. Please read the following announcement immediately before the tape is played.

"In the Ministerial Conference lecture you are about to hear on the subject of "Developing the Faith to Face Death," Mr. Tim Thompson is talking mainly about his own health situation and did not go through all the ways doctors can be used.

"The Church is not against people going to doctors, as there are some good uses for doctors. Please read Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong's 1979 booklet, The Plain Truth About Healing, and get the overview. On pages 64 and 65, it says 'we are so well aware of the progress made by the medical profession in our day...Further, it is true that today most doctors prescribe medicines that are NOT poisons but rather are designed to help nature do its own healing. However, NO MEDICINE -- NO DOCTOR -- can HEAL! I have never heard a medical doctor deny that statement. They do not claim to heal.' " [Note: This is the end of what was to read out from HQ to members.]

"As was mentioned before, in order to help prevent this set of two lecture tapes from falling into the hands of those who lack faith and should not receive them, this lecture will NOT be sent out from HQ to the normal list of weekly tape recipients, even though it was played at HQ on September 1st (therefore, there will be no HQ Sabbath tape coming out this week) . Each minister who has these tapes should play the lecture in his church areas while he is present and then retrieve the tapes immediately after they have been played, not allowing them to be copied, even for the local church library. This means you and the ministers under you must plan ahead for travel to your church areas."

Harrison handwrote "Please Action this ASAP" and signed it Alex Harrison. The "PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL" stamp appears at the top and the bottom of the fax. Talk about being TOP-SECRET stuff!! Like, don't let the little people know what's really going on at the top of the Government!! Honestly, the poor ignorant members of the PCG are kept in the dark well and truly!!

If the local congregations worldwide were allowed to hear the taped sermon from Tim Thompson with the read-out memo from HQ, why not still send scattered PCG members the taped sermon with a printed copy of the HQ "addendum" (so they all have "unity"). It doesn't make sense!! Of course, now in 2007, the scattered members wouldn't even get to hear the sermon at all (lucky for them, I suppose!). --Insider

Comment: HWA's booklet, "Does God Heal Today?" was discontinued in 1968. In 1979 he wrote "The Plain Truth About Healing," changing a few of his words. Some have felt HWA corrected his previous extreme views in the `79 booklet. What he did was scramble some of his words, but the mind control programming was still "trust Christ and avoid doctors." Thousands of people suffered and died in the WCG under HWA due to this healing doctrine. No credit can be given to HWA that he ever repented of anything. HWA was skilled in double speak and contradictions. His 1979 booklet is filled with lies, as was his autobiography. Read: The Philadelphia Church of God's Healing Doctrine.

I Wrote PCG HQ in Past With Concerns About The Healing Doctrine:

April 25, 2007

I happened to be in Edmond during that Ministerial Conference where Tim Thompson gave that sermon. [refer to previous letter] I had been working closely with him during construction of the Field house, providing architectural services. We talked often, and I became aware of his upcoming sermon. The subject had been on my mind for quite a while and I asked him to clarify a few issues that I felt needed some balance in the individual congregations. I had seen a very extreme version of the Healing Doctrine, equating all doctors with Satan. Basically they based the doctrine on the original Healing booklet, not the one HWA revised in 1979.

I actually wrote out my concerns including a lot of quotes from the latest writings by HWA to Mr. Thompson. He read the letter before giving the sermon, but basically scolded me and ignored it. On the day of the sermon, I found an adjacent room where some of the sound equipment was being used to record it. I sat and listened and took a lot of notes--not sure whether this would be sent out.

After the sermon, I wrote him another letter--even though I was there in person, asking that it be withheld. Again it was ignored. I believe that was the beginning of the end for me.

After returning to N. J., when the tape was sent out, it was played in services. However in our area the announcements Mr. Harrison included in his letter were not read. My blood was boiling during that sermon.

The tape was in the library for a few months. I withdrew it and asked our local pastor to keep it out of the Library, but again I was ignored. --Geoff Gogan

Comment: Geoff Gogan faxed a letter to Mr. Barkei and Mr. Campbell on Dec. 13, 2001 with his concerns about PCG's healing doctrine. This letter resulted in his suspension. He sent a follow-up letter on Dec. 31, 200l. Following are some words taken from that second letter:

"I don't recall the date but around Last Passover, of 1999, Ernie Rowe died after hearing Mr. Winters tape on healing and he decided to stop taking medication for his heart. I learned this during discussions following his funeral, in which I heard of similar decisions by several others in the congregation. A 12 year old girl recently died in Ohio from Meningitis, as her parents were afraid to take her to a doctor. Ernie and others who listened to the Winters tape, understood that to take medication, meant that one could not keep the Passover because they were not 'Rightly discerning the body of Christ.' "

Read: PCG Architect Thrown Out for Questioning (Dec. 20, 2002 letter to ESN)

Spanking of Babies Goes on in PCG:

April 26, 2007

I transcribed the following from a handwritten letter by Amy Flurry (wife of Stephen Flurry) regarding their baby daughter Vienna shortly after she was born. She states that it won't be long to go before she "starts spanking" her. Stephen and Amy were married in February 1997. Their daughter Vienna was named after the place that they honeymooned, just like Wayne Turgeon named his daughter Paris.

"Stephen & I are enjoying our little Vienna so much!! She is so precious! Such a BLESSING! And, as far as babies go, she's been so good - no stomach problems, she sleeps well @ night, she's pleasant & content (much of the time - but she still is a selfish baby who has to eat NOW, or else she'll starve to death!). People must have prayed for such things for the Work's sake, because I know she's not like that because of anything we've done! But I'm not complaining! It's been a real blessing. Only a couple more weeks till we start spanking - THAT'S when we'll really need prayers. We want so badly to do things right with her. Anyway, things are going so well. We're having a ball."

--Formerly in PCG
 

Photos of High-Ranking Ministers:

April 27, 2007

I don't know if it is just me but I've noticed how almost downright evil some of the high-ranking ministers in PCG look in their photos. I also observed this with a number of the WCG evangelists, but only after I left and happened to compare their pictures with genuine ministers in true Christian churches. It is eerie. I hope others will do a comparison because I think candid photos show more of a person's true self than anything else. Many of these honchos were/are fleecing the flock and doing who knows what else in their private lives? In my opinion, they're nothing more than gangsters. --W.
 

Hypocrisy at PCG HQ:

May 13, 2007

I wonder how it is that some who are "higher-uppers" at the headquarters of PCG have been allowed to have their "ex-WCG" family member come and live with them, when all other lower-level lay members are not even allowed to speak to their family members? The hypocrisy makes me sick. --Anonymous

Members Aren't Willing To Admit They've Been Shammed:

May 26, 2007

I've often pondered how deeply and effectively HWA dominated our mind and our hearts. I remember reading his literature and thinking, "Either this man is telling the truth or he's crazy." Somewhere along the line, I came to believe he was telling the truth. Probably because he constantly reminded us that he was. If he could get us to agree with ordinary things (i. e., "the world is crazy and headed for destruction; we will pollute ourselves off the planet; man has no solutions to his problems, etc."), then he could get us to agree with his theology--mostly because we never studied deeply into theology, if at all. When HWA died, it was inconceivable that God could leave "His people" hanging. So people like Gerald Flurry had the power to keep people in denial--denial that HWA was a phony and none of his prophecies came true when he said they would. Members who weren't willing to believe they've been shammed (it's hard to admit when you've been wrong, especially if you've suffered loss "for the Work") jumped on board Flurry's boat. They've been told for so long what to do, what to wear, how to think, what to eat, how much to give, etc., that they couldn't imagine life outside of the cage. Flurry is only too willing to drive HWA's gravy train down the same tracks. --Kelly Marshall, author of Mystery of the Ages (a critical review)

Critical Thinking is the Road to True Freedom:

June 6, 2007

Once upon a time I was involved in these cults. I have been free now for nearly 6 years. Critical thinking is the road to true freedom. The truth can and does set us free.

There was a time that I accepted their doctrine without question. But the longer I was in, the more I began to examine what I was involved with. I saw hypocrisy time and time again.

It is not too difficult to sift through all of it with an open mind free of fear and willing to see. The lies become exposed one after another. Then it's just a matter of admitting we were foolish and have been duped.

I knew many of the ministers in the PCG. Looking back, I feel ill and just sickened by what went on while I was in. They are elitist cultists.

I am very fortunate that no one in my extended family ever believed the cults about anything and that I was the only believer. It made it much easier to exit. My kids do still remember some of that experience but happily I got them away from it all at an early enough age. I believe they were a big part of the reason I finally flew to safety away, far far away, from the elitist cultists. --C. S. 

PCG Mother Moves Out Before We Arrive to Visit:

July 4, 2007

Thanks again for posting the info that you do. My siblings and our families just visited our parents for a week, and my mother, a devout PCGer, moved out before we arrived and stayed away for the whole time. I thought my father would have a heart attack. He had heart issues years ago, and this brought them back with chest pain and carotid artery pressure issues and all. It was so very stressful.

My husband and I (and relatives) are all former baptized WCGers; my brother and wife are in [an offshoot]. My husband and I are mainstream. She sent us a letter almost two years ago, begging us to return or be lost and cut off. That explains her behavior. She can talk to and have contact with my dad and other brothers, not us.

This is such idiocy and is certainly not the love of Christ. My heart is sick over it all. It feels like my mother is already dead.

God bless you and the work you do. -- A.

Gerald Flurry Teaching More Heresy:

August 6, 2007

Gerald Flurry is now teaching that the Lion of the Tribe of Judah in Revelation 5:5 was Herbert W. Armstrong and that the church (PCG) is now the Lion.

Gerald Flurry must be loosing his mind, or else he is possessed by a demon, or both.

The rest of the chapter makes it plain and clear that Jesus Christ is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and He and He alone is worthy to open the seals.

Hopefully, this heretical teaching will cause the exit of many more from the PCG. --[name withheld]

Exiter of PCG Finds Comfort in ESN Site:

August 6, 2007

I left the PCG a little over a year ago. I found your web site, Exit & Support Network, yesterday. I was amazed to find that I not only am not alone, but the parallels in most of the letters from others who left is astounding. I have been depressed for most of the last two years about my agonizing decision to leave. I have been a part of the WCG and then the PCG for 45 of my 48 years. The PCG has been systematically isolating me from my family and friends for the last 6 years and it was only when my second oldest son went into the Marine Corps last summer, right out of high school, that I finally woke up. His Marine Corps Boot Camp graduation was only about 2 miles from the PCG feast site in San Diego, during the Feast of Tabernacles in 2006 (my family and I are very proud of him). It was the conflict of his Aunts and Uncles coming down for the graduation and my having to avoid either them, or other PCG members, so we would not be seen together. My brother and his wife were very prominent in the WCG and well known by most who are now ministers in the PCG and they (my brother and his wife) are not in the PCG. We would have been recognized almost anywhere in the vicinity where we would have gathered to celebrate my son's graduation.

This made me really start taking stock of what was going on and I left the PCG because I realized that this should not be a problem in any way (families gathering to celebrate a graduation). I also became very aware that my son, who now proudly wears the uniform of the United States Marine Corps, was not welcome to attend services with me at the PCG, especially if he wore his uniform. This seems quite a contradiction from a church, when the leaders in that church, in their sermons, are frequently talking about how America should be proud to wield her power and use her military might around the world.

I have spent most of this weekend pouring over your letters and have received much comfort. Thank you, and I will be reading more. I really do feel that a great weight is being lifted from my shoulders.

Warm regards, --Exiter of WCG and former PCG member

Your Website Has Been a Major Step in Getting My Life Back:

(2nd email from person above)

August 9, 2007

Thank you for responding to my letter. Having not attended in a little over a year has, I think, given me the ability to step back and view what has happened to me for so long--the control, the fear and loathing that was pressed into my mind, being programmed to fear being cut-off. As I read, on your web site, the quotes of Gerald Flurry giving himself more power and status and "special relationship with God," I think to myself, "I remember that sermon," or "I remember reading that." Seeing the quotes all together from the viewpoint of not currently attending really cements the feeling I was getting about his going over the top. What really scares me is that just a couple of years ago I may have been willing to move to the compound and do whatever he wanted.

I thank God for opening my eyes and leading me to your web site. I thank God that my wife was able to get out twelve years ago and she never gave up on me or pressured me. I thank God that my children were able to see through the deception, even though I was not. Thanking God is difficult for me and is almost a foreign concept at this point because my programming was to only see God as Gerald Flurry or Herbert Armstrong. I think that finding your web site has been a major first step in getting my life back.

I had a long talk with my employer yesterday and explained how my missed work, when I called in "sick" was really depression and that it was difficult for me to just get out of bed some days. All because of the fear and desperation of "going into the lake of fire" and "facing annihilation in the tribulation." He was very supportive and encouraged me to take whatever time or steps I need and that my job is safe.

I know from my own experience how lonely and difficult one can feel, especially while still in the organization and beginning to wake up.

Yesterday I sought some counseling with an old friend that had left years ago. We talked; well he mostly listened, for over an hour, it was very therapeutic.

Thank you again. It means a lot to me to know that you, and others out there, who do not know me personally care about me so much. Please pray that I may be able to establish a relationship with God, independent of my previous programming. --Exiter of WCG and former PCG member

Can Gerald Flurry Say "Jesus Christ is Lord"?

August 15, 2007

Dear fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ: (especially former and current PCG members)

Have any of you noticed that Gerald Flurry never once says on The Key of David the following:

"Jesus is Lord," "Jesus Christ is Lord," or "Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior."

If you will examine the transcripts of his Key of David programs, I believe that
you will not be able to find where he says these words.

In fact, while I was a member of the PCG, I never remember hearing him say them.

It would be a Herculean task to go back and re-read all of his literature and all of the Philadelphia Trumpet and Royal Vision magazines that I still have, but it would be interesting to see if he ever has written these words.

The Bible states in I Cor. 12:3 that no one can say "Jesus is the Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. Could it be that Gerald Flurry is of another spirit, especially in view of the fact that he makes so many unbiblical statements, writes so many unbiblical statements and twists meaning of the Scriptures to suit himself and his "government" of God?

Brethren should be very cautious in dealing with Gerald Flurry and following him. He certainly is not following Jesus Christ as Paul instructed us to do.

Beware of this false prophet. -- James M. Kazimir (Former member/deacon in PCG; author of Ministerial Evils in PCG)

Bumper Stickers and ID Cards:

August 22, 2007

The bumper stickers used to be a way to keep non members out of the parking lots at the feast, but maybe that's not a problem anymore with the small number of members at each site. PCG may be paranoid to the point where they are trying to keep out "spies" or reporters by checking IDs at the door. There has also been a problem the past couple of years with several splinters having meetings in the same cities, and members switching around out of curiosity, or even accidentally going into the wrong meeting. Sometimes, the splinters even meet in the same hotel! It is a serious offence to visit another splinter's meeting, calling for disfellowshipment! --Former PCG member

Flurry's Denial of Christ is Very Subtle:

August 22, 2007

After having been in the PCG for a number of years, it finally became increasingly clear that this "church" did not worship and praise God through Jesus Christ and perhaps this is the reason that the majority of their teaching and preaching stems from the Old Testament books.

Of course the ministry doesn't out right deny Jesus. They will speak about Him, especially during the spring holy days, but to worship Christ, to sing praises to His name or to speak power to truth according to His name is unheard of. It's almost like they are ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This denial of Christ is very subtle; Gerald Flurry [in speaking about other Christians and churches] makes statements like:

"They focus on His person."

"If they keep looking at the personality they don't see what He actually said." 

"You hear about Jesus Christ all the time, but do you hear about His message?"

Very recently, I spoke with a member friend, that feared going against "government" but this person made the statement the Jesus and God are not the same. Prior to leaving the PCG, I heard a sermon by Wayne Turgeon [Flurry's son-in-law] entitled, "What Would the Father Do?" In the sermon he mentioned, "I would not be caught wearing a bracelet, more or less one with the initials "WWJD" on it" (what would Jesus Do?)

Now, what is so amazing about this is that if he would have read John 5:19 he would have known that Jesus would do the very same thing as the Father:

"...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

Their belief seem to be this, "Jesus is okay but God the Father is better, and we at the PCG are better than the other Christian groups, because we don't worship Jesus."

In John 10:30 Christ said "I and my Father are one." But the PCG seeks to divide this one relationship, perhaps to make it fit better into their organizational chart [originally formulated by HWA]: God the Father first, Jesus second, Herbert Armstrong third, then under him, Gerald Flurry.

On their TV program in a lesson entitled "Christ Declares the Father," Gerald Flurry made the following statement:

"Christ has a marvelous responsibility as well, but He's not the Head of the Family."

This may sound enlightening to some, but to me, it sounded very carnal minded. Again, their thinking seems to be, "Jesus is lower than God the Father and therefore is not worthy of praise and honor."

In the same program Gerald Flurry makes another carnal minded statement:

"It's the Father's name that we honor. We honor His name above Christ's, above everything because He's the Head of the Family."

Well, so much for John 5:22-23:

"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

The reason Gerald Flurry may not be able to say "Jesus is Lord," is because, based on what he teaches, he doesn't believe that He is Lord  -- Ex PCG member

My Review of Raising the Ruins:

September 12, 2007

I read the Amazon reviews about this book. Most, of course, stated how wonderful the book was. I left my own review, because after reading all the reviews (and believe me it wasn't easy) it gave me the feeling that I knew enough about the book to be able to write on it. My review was posted but was removed in less than 24 hours. Then they put it back on. Here is my review and you can post it if you want to. --D. S.

I don't need to buy this book and read it to realize what it's all about. Reading the reviews was enough. The WWCG and all the off shoots will never get another cent out of me!

I think all of you Herbert W. Armstrong supporters hit the nail on the head without even realizing it. The work Mr. Armstrong raised. Yes, it was the work of a man. None of you mentioned Jesus Christ once. Mr. Armstrong never restored any lost truths. First he plagiarized everything he wrote. Anyone who has looked into this knows it. Mr. Armstrong acted as if God revealed certain things to him alone. If God revealed these things it wasn't to Herbert W. Armstrong.

The only truth you need is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ said he was the way and the TRUTH of life. (John 14:6) Never once did Christ teach of Noah's unchanged racial strain from creation. He never talked about the race of Adam and Eve. Mr. Armstrong and you guys say they were white. How do you know? Were you there when they were created?

You can believe anything you want but come judgment day you'll find out with everyone else that the only way to eternal life is through Jesus Christ and I don't care how much you think you understand "certain" truths!

And another thing, a person repents because they fear what God can do to them. (Matt. 10:28) A person doesn't repent because of end time world events. (Another thing Christ didn't dwell on.)

There is one more way you can prove to yourself that Jesus Christ was in fact the focal of the gospel. If you will go to to Matt. 26:46 Jesus said the hour was at "hand" which meant of course that the time was immediate that he was going to be crucified. This same word "hand" is used in Mark 1:15, when Christ said the Kingdom of God was at hand. The only thing immediately at hand of course was Jesus Christ. Think about it!

Marvin Campbell Now Legally Blind:

September 17, 2007

Mr. Campbell is now legally blind. At this past week's Feast of Trumpets in Mason, Ohio he had to be led by two men to the podium to speak. He is now wearing dark glasses and had to give a short memorized speech without notes. The cause is said to be diabetes. I couldn't help but to think that he had allowed himself to become blind by not treating a treatable disease. --Ohio

Update: According to a  3-15-08 announcement, Cal Culpepper is going to be assisting Aaron Eagle in performing the duties of Marvin Campbell, evangelist for most of the eastern area. Most members hold the opinion that Mr. Culpepper and Mr. Eagle are being trained to later take over Mr. Campbell's duties.

Update: In April 2008, we were told that Marvin Campbell now resides at PCG headquarters in Edmond, Oklahoma.

The Two Witnesses Will Be Flurry and Son?

September 17, 2007

True Meaning of Day of Atonement:

September 21, 2007

With the Day of Atonement coming up, I'm reminded of the time when my spouse, a member of the PCG, mentioned that she would be fasting on that day. I told her that God's Word said that Jesus had already fully atoned for our sins; there was nothing else we could do to add to it. I told her the observation of Day of Atonement was a shadow of Christ's redemptive work. In fact, all the feasts days are mere shadows (pictures or types) that were fulfilled and completed in Him. Flurry has mixed up members' minds so much in regard to the true meaning of this day. He has them dwelling on how they should "humble" themselves and that this day pictures when the world with be "at one" with God, and how Satan will be restrained for a thousand years. But the two goats constituted one sin offering. Christ has fully taken away our sins, once and for all. We no longer need to fast on the Day of Atonement.--Impacted by loved one in PCG

Comment: Read this part in the Gerringer letter where he tells how "much of the Bible became crystal clear when we realized and accepted that the covenant was made with Ancient Israel, and no one else." Also, read the paragraphs following that, as the Day of Atonement is discussed. He shows the problems that arrive when "Christians today try to put themselves in a system God never intended for them."

PCG's Feast This Year:

October 16, 2007

This year PCG held their Feast of Tabernacles in the U. S. at the following sites: Edmond, Oklahoma, Greeneville, South Carolina and San Diego, California. The newest site overseas was Jerusalem. Each year could be a different site, though. The feast site changing is random and has to do with the "ebb and flow" of membership in each region. The membership in the southeast might be growing, and the PCG then needs to shift some members north; or the membership in the north is decreasing, and the PCG needs to shift the members there to balance it out.

There were approximately 1400 who attended the site in Greeneville, South Carolina. If the information from 2005's posting is accurate (See: Oct. 9, 2005 letter: Numbers Down in PCG), I would estimate that membership has only grown by about 100 in the last two years. With the numbers at the feast being doctored like we know they are (with children, etc.), that actually shows little or no growth in two years. That's no astounding growth like the members were promised with the purchase of HWA's books. More deception. --Informer

Child Raised in PCG is Lost Emotionally:

October 24, 2007

Please help us. Our step-daughter was raised in the PCG and last year left it. She is 21 and is lost emotionally. Three weeks ago she tried to commit suicide with an overdose of over the counter meds. We have her starting with a therapist and she is on medication. Can you advise how we can help her find her way? The teachings of the PCG are so bizarre to me. My husband was never in the PCG and tried to keep the kids out also. Long story short--this didn't work. Their mom is completely engulfed in the PCG and my stepson is unfortunately at the Herbert W. Armstrong College in Oklahoma. I feel we are these kids only hope. I've printed many of your writings for her to read. I don't think she's read them yet and doesn't like to talk much about the PCG. Please advise us what to do!! Thanks in advance for any help. --S.

Comment: This person received a personal reply and has been referred to certain ones on our Referrals. Those raised in PCG can also read our section for child survivors.

I Lost a Daughter Emotionally Due to PCG:

October 25, 2007

I regularly read letters posted by ex PCG members and have emailed you before. I think you give wonderful help by allowing people from different WCG and splinter groups to share their experiences as part of healing and rebuilding their lives from damage caused when in one of the groups.

I have a daughter in the PCG who is married to a minister's son who is also emotionally lost to family outside of that group so I want the person to please know others do care very much for you and I shall be praying for you to receive all the help and encouragement that you deserve towards helping your step-daughter recover and heal from the damage caused to her when in the PCG. I shall also pray for your step-son that he too sees the need to step away from such a destructive mind controlling group. I'm sure God will guide and help you through these difficult days.

Thank you for the opportunities given to allow others to encourage and give support to hurting people. --L.

Craig Winters Out of PCG?

November 4, 2007

[This letter has been removed due to being false info.]

Have Been Able to Keep in Contact With Family in PCG:

November 9, 2007

My wife's mother and father had been in WCG since the 60's and have now been with PCG for [a few] years. We have lamented the loss of their company with the policy of separation which, for them, includes not just my wife, but all of their adult children. We have, though, over the last couple of years kept in contact by just showing up on occasion and have not yet been turned away. On a Sunday a couple weeks ago, my wife and I and our kids went over to her folks' place to do some yard clean-up in preparation for the winter. They are getting quite elderly and are simply not able to keep up with things as they use to. While we were there, my wife's mom asked if we would be able to stay for dinner. My wife asked back if it was even "allowed" for us to do that and her mom's reply was at least for us quite encouraging. She said that not being able to fellowship is "just church policy." That is truly not the way they presented the new ruling to us when it first came down from Gerald Flurry. Unfortunately, we had another raking project on the schedule for that afternoon and were not able to accept the offer, but we were very encouraged. I am interested if anyone has heard if PCG is starting to lighten up on this "no contact" policy. We all continue to pray that God will open the eyes and hearts of all of us to a greater understanding of His will. --[name withheld]

Reply: We have not heard that PCG is easing up on this ruling. The members that do break it are those who start thinking for themselves and who are seeing their family or friends in secret.

No Contact Ruling / A Relief to Be Out

November 24, 2007

Hello,

I'd just like to tell you that I've been reading the postings on your site for a little under two years now and I have to send my thanks to you as it really helped me after leaving this business organization (I say this as I believe that they are only in it for the money).

Your readers may be interested to know that families in PCG are not allowed to contact others only if those on the outside are baptized. My parents originally took this stand with me upon leaving. I've been told that they can still talk to me as I'm not baptized. But in order to send a message that what I'm doing is wrong in the PCG's eyes, they do not contact me. I hear a few things now and then from others who have left and it doesn't seem that the PCG is letting up on this policy. Why would they though? If they now change their position, they are not only showing that the leader may have made a mistake (I know what a crazy idea) but others will probably be convinced that they are in a cult and leave; therefore, reducing the amount of income that the PCG needs.

One quick question I've never really understood. How does building homes on this property help send out the "gospel" to the world?

One other note you might find interesting after reading the posting entitled "The Two Witnesses Will Be Flurry and Son?" [see September 17, 2007 letter], I always wondered if this was a fact or fiction. About a month later, I was talking to one of my parents and I asked them if this was true. They responded by saying that they wouldn't be surprised if they were. One thing to note is that if one of my parents told me this, I feel that it must have been said publically at one point or another in services, whether it was in a sermon or bible study I do not know. It would be interesting to know if it was the leader himself who came up with this idea, or if it was one of the faithful 7,000.

Another point that I really need to say, and to get off my chest, is that after growing up in both the WCG and PCG and spending most of my adult life in the PCG, I have found that the vast majority of people to be hypocrites. People my age always went out drinking and partying, from alcohol to drugs, and would show up at services and pretend to be good little Christians. I can't tell you the relief I feel now that I am out, yet at the same time 23 years of fear mongering still grips me from time to time. I hope that all who have left and are finally getting on with their lives find peace and happiness. I have been lucky in this as I had a strong group of friends that I could rely on when I left who help carry me through my low times.

Once again thank you for taking the time to build your website. --[name withheld]

Friend in PCG Breaking the "No Contact" Rule:

November 27, 2007

I was a baptized member of WCG up till about 8 years ago, and have a dear friend who has been with PCG for about the same amount of time. We were as close as brothers for a long time, but I had not heard a word from him since even before the no contact rule. However, I just received a letter from him last month expressing how he wished to hear from me. He even sent pictures of .... (who also is indoctrinated in their madness.) I know he is still very much steeped in Flurry's insanity, but I wondered too if they might not be relenting somewhat on the no contact rule. Whether PCG is relenting, or my friend is starting to get a mind of his own, I will take it as good news. For what it's worth. --South Carolina

Comment:  Be sure and read 2006 letter: Keep Lines of Communication Open With Those Wanting to Cut Off which shows some in PCG are ignoring the no-contact rule.

PCG HQ Hasn't Let Up on No Contact Ruling:

November 29, 2007

Non-members are allowed to attend different social functions in PCG, such as church picnics and winter socials, as long as they don't consider the outsider to be a threat or dangerous; i.e., trying to talk someone out of the PCG or openly opposing it. However, the catch is that non-members cannot attend their Sabbath services which last 6-8 hours (this includes the Bible studies the minister often has on the same day).

PCG is currently inviting local citizens of Edmond, the general public, and some immediate family members (not former members of WCG or PCG, etc.), to certain of their cultural events. This does not mean there has been a relaxing of the no-contact ruling. It is merely part of their attempt to appear less "cultish" to the outside world and with the hope of recruiting more people. They still hide what is actually going on inside their organization--the rules, the fear, the threats, the coercion, the doomsday preaching, etc.--and this should be a "red flag" to most anyone not in these groups. --S. L.
 

My Wife Decided PCG Had Been the Cause of Her Depression:

November 30, 2007

My wife has been in the PCOG since she was 12 years old. Her father and mother, and three sisters are also devout to it. She has decided it was the cause of her depression of the past year and a half, and told her minister she was done. Now he calls her parents and they call her. She's going through a lot of torment from them, but feels happier than ever after leaving! I try to support her and tell her, "They must be afraid you will discover yourself and will have no more need for a group to think independently." Though I try to stay unbiased--and I think the best way is to help her discover who she is on her own--her teenage years were controlled, and so she never had a goal in life but to "serve God and the church." Now she has a career in sight. It excites her to no end, and she smiles a lot more. But they are fighting tooth and nail to get her back. It scares me. This organization scares me. Any advice? --Ryan Wallander

Reply: Many have told us how much happier they are after they leave these controlling groups and the newfound freedom they find. ... PCG is interested in holding on to the ones that grew up inside, so they will do whatever they can to keep them. The way they do this is through fear tactics and guilt. Your wife needs to gain the strength to stand up to her parents and tell them that she has made her decision and it is final and that she doesn't want to discuss it anymore with them. Her parents are used to controlling her and they will continue to try to do so. Do not let this organization make you afraid. Fear is their main weapon. Speaking up and exposing them is what we must do. Also see Understanding Mind Control & Exploitive Groups and Articles for Survivors.

Stephen Flurry's Article, "You Are Saved by Grace" Caused Me Confusion:

December 2, 2007

I emailed you a while back with a letter about growing up under influence of the PCG but was never actually baptized into it or even able to find a nearby congregation.

I've read through your site pretty extensively and it has brought me great solace and comfort, but predictably I'm still facing emotional and spiritual difficulties as a result of having my entire belief system being tossed upside down.

Admittedly, I still check The Trumpet website simply out of habit and curiosity and I recently came across this article by Stephen Flurry ["You Are Saved By Grace"], which almost seems directed at ESN. I do not submit this as criticism or attack, but my experience with the PCG was rather unique and this article seems to fall in line with what they had taught me in contrast to what most exiters say they experienced. Since I received all of my teaching via the Trumpet/Royal Vision/Booklets, it seems my beliefs were slightly different from those actually in the PCG. I was under the idea that salvation was from grace, but that was salvation from eternal death and those of us that would be alive for the "World War III/Apocalypse" would have to earn our salvation from that. But this article seems askew from even that, so I have no idea what is going through their heads anymore.

I would like to see your opinions/views on this article, and if they are playing lip service, lying, or are genuine in their word.

I hope this email helps you out in your help of fellow exiters and I hope you can help to clear some of the confusion I have as a result of this article.

Keep up the good fight. --Mitch (influenced by PCG)

Comment: We have posted a critique of this article: What Does Saved by Grace Really Mean? (A critique of Stephen Flurry's article, "You Are Saved by Grace!"). 

Critique Exposed Flurry's Classic Double-Speak:

December 2, 2007

I just read the person's letter in which he was expressing some confusion over Stephen Flurry's article on grace. I think Bill Hohmann certainly did a good job of analyzing it and exposing the classic double-speak that Flurry is so apt to engage in. I would only add that what Flurry fails to point out is that what the Jews meant by becoming circumcised and keeping the law meant keeping the entire law. Not just the Ten Commandments. To the Jews the law encompassed all 613 mitzvot, or commandments. They actually went through the entire first five books of the OT, the Torah, and counted 613 of them. I dare any modern day Christian, especially here in the western world, to be able to even attempt to keep all of those commandments. Paul made it clear that it wasn't even possible in Judea during his day, and with the Temple close by. The PCG picks and chooses which commandments are "convenient" to keep, and builds their theology around it. If you claim to be a "law keeper," you have to keep all of them, not just the ones that are convenient. Paul himself said just that: If you want to be a "worthy law keeper" then you are bound to keep the whole law. Not even the pious Flurry can even come close. --Former PCG member, Texas

Really Gained From Reading the Critique of Stephen Flurry's Article:

December 3, 2007

I wanted to let you know that I really gained from reading the new critique of Stephen Flurry's article on Grace Vs. the Law. It is so hard to get all the old programming out permanently. After all those years of being told what "Christianity" teaches on the subject, it is good to read again what is actually believed.

A really wacky statement made by GF has come to mind recently. He said this either at the feast or we heard it on tape. Even at the time, I shook my head. He was talking about the symbolic narrative in Rev. 12: 1-7, where the woman gave birth to the man child who was taken to Heaven. His interpretation of it was that Jesus Christ had "the Church" as His mother! The "Church" did not exist until after the Resurrection! I don't know if GF ever went back on that, but I doubt it. --Former member of PCG

Critique of Stephen Flurry's Article Made So Much Sense:

December 4, 2007

I just finished Mr. Hohmann's review. Wow, I do believe that that addition may be the most important and eye-opening piece on the whole site. It made so much of what I was confused over become clear so quickly. I'm glad that he was able to assess it so well. Thank you again for all you do. Today has been a success for me and I think I've grown more from it than any day previously. I had no idea that this is what I would get when I wondered if I should even send the link to you, but it has proven quite fruitful.

Thank you again for this. -- Mitch (influenced by PCG)

Comment: See Mitch's first letter to ESN above (Dec. 2, 2007).

No Contact Rule is Still in Effect:

December 7, 2007

On the no contact rule, I have just spoken to one of my "in" contacts on the subject. The no contact rule is still in effect. I received no indication it is being relaxed. To reduce or remove the rule would require a change in the reasoning behind it, and there has been no change in that at all. The visit rules as stated by S. L. on the 29 of November [see above letter] are the ones in effect. So obviously those who are not obeying this rule as they are required to are starting to think a bit for themselves. They are no doubt missing their relatives and starting to sneakily relax the rule themselves. We must hope and pray they continue to do so until they work it out enough to leave the whole sorry mess. --Impacted by loved ones in PCG

Levi Winters:

December 7, 2007

This info on Levi Winters has been placed in Mike's Final Exit Letter to Craig Winters.

Stephen Flurry's Article Was One-Sided:

December 7, 2007

I hope many people will understand how Stephen Flurry tries to shift the meaning of grace through double-talk, just like HWA did. He bashes reputable scholars but then refuses to quote them. By placing mistrust toward their motives, he paves the way to his own "rightness." It's a simple con, but one easily fallen for. In the beginning of the article, SF quotes HWA saying that we "don't obtain salvation through the law" (but anyone inside the organization knows better! If one does not keep the law, then they are in rebellion, and are put out of "God's church," resulting in one's loss of salvation). What is "said" to outsiders (to sound attractive and draw in new recruits) and what is actually "practiced" within the organization are diametrically opposite. SF backs people into a corner and gives them only one alternative: By accepting grace, you are given a license to commit unbridled lust and sin. He does not reveal to his readers another alternative: a life completely forgiven, redeemed, and led by the Holy Spirit (and not by Stephen Flurry). There are many powerful benefits that SF doesn't mention, such as how "all" our sins are forgiven, not just past sins only. SF likes to stir up arguments about the Law not being nailed to the Cross, but he certainly doesn't mention that the Old Covenant has ended, and doesn't point out that a New Covenant has been established. He also does not quote any scriptures (thankfully Bill did) that show that the O.T. law is no longer enforced. So SF's article is as one-sided as they come. I hope readers will take heed to Bill's words and do their homework and look up these scriptures to prove all things. --Kelly Marshall, former WCG member and reviewer of Mystery of the Ages

Three Big Announcements in PCG:

December 10, 2007

There were three big announcements this last Sabbath. First, Aaron Eagle (not sure on the spelling) has been assigned to assist Mr. Marvin Campbell who is now suffering from symptoms of untreated diabetes. Next, Mr. Toews and his wife from the Canada PCG have been disfellowshipped and marked. And last, but certainly not least, both Mr. Ron Fraser and Mr. Frank Borg have both been officially suspended. --Informer

Update: Read 1-26-08 letter: Jacob Toews Resigned From Board Due to Corruption.

Members and Ministers Have Recently Left:

December 13, 2007

A friend of mine who is still in the PCG told me that rumor has it Mr. Jake Toews is now attending one of the other COG's. I am told that quite a few members of the Canadian congregations have recently left the PCG. Ron Fraser and Frank Borg were both "headquarters ministers." Mr. Frazer was a high profile Trumpet magazine writer, probably one of their best, and Mr. Borg wrote articles in their Royal Vision magazine (sent to the membership only). I found both of them listed in the 2004 PCG Imperial College Envoy (the only envoy I have). It shows Ron Fraser as an instructor at their College and Frank Borg was an older married student, one of the few that was ordained into the ministry. He was possibly the only one, but we are not sure. Many ministers have left the PCG this year. Some of them include: John Durrad, Herman Barkei, Walter Barkei, and Jake Toews. Several ministers have been suspended.
A number of ministers this year have been given non-active status, and a number of deacons have also left. --Former PCG member

Comment: We critiqued one of Frank Borg's articles in the RV in September 2004. Read: Confusing Article on Health Insurance by Frank Borg.

Updated: Jacob Toews is now with David C. Pack's RCG. (Also see our section Information on Restored Church of God.) Walter Barkei died in Feb. 2008.

Ron Fraser Had a Part in Kicking Out Other Ministers:

December 21, 2007

What a double-minded, double-standard man Ron Fraser is. As he has been a part of kicking out other ministers, he knew deep down that it could always happen to him. In fact, he was instrumental in kicking out another Australian minister who pastored the San Antonio, Texas church for almost a year. This guy, Joe Avila, was actually a very kind and decent man. Those are rare, but he truly was. Fraser called him one night and told him that he was out, and that the church was notifying the "government" that he was no longer employed by the PCG. That essentially gave him just 30 days to sell his house and cars in order to legally get out of the U.S. since it meant his work visa was cancelled. I hope the same thing happens to Fraser.

Avila was kicked out because he refused to go along with either a particular doctrine, or a policy. I can't remember exactly what it was. But he stuck to his guns and was true to his convictions rather than go along. Well, he ended up suffering for doing good.

I hope that the end of the PCG is truly near. --Former PCG member

Comment: We have been told that Ron Fraser ran "rough shod" over many members, and also directed other ministers to watch members and encouraged them to report on one another. It appears that those who have abused others are now being abused themselves. Fraser is mentioned in Gerald Flurry: A Religious Fraud?

What Has Helped Me to Heal More Than Anything Else:

December 23, 2007

It has been almost two years since leaving the PCG, and four months since I found your web site and wrote to you about leaving the PCG. At the time, I still believed that HWA's teachings were probably right. However, since doing research, and looking up the references to his failed prophecies, in his own books, that I inherited from my mother, and comparing them to reality, I now see that he is just another charlatan. I think this knowledge has helped me to heal more than anything else. I am now beginning to put the whole WCG experience behind me as being a hard lesson that God did not put me through, any more than God brings ordinary street crime to regular people on the street. I guess it will just take time to get past it all.

My son is still faithfully serving his country in the United States Marine Corps and now another of my sons has joined the United States Army. I am very proud of them, but their service just reminds me of how my opportunity to serve my country was stolen from me by HWA and the WCG, but there is no going back now. I remember how growing up, I wanted more than anything else, to serve in my country's military. This, I think, is the hardest thing to deal with, knowing now that I gave that up for nothing when I thought I gave it up for God.

My wife and I are now closer than ever, and I relate to my sons much easier. We even went to my company's Christmas party and all had a great time (it was not a drunken bacchanalia, as HWA would want one to think). We will even be going over to my Aunt's on Christmas Eve. We are not celebrating it this year, but at least we do not have to run, screaming into the night and stopping our ears, from it!

I really do thank you for the service you provide to those of us who leave the churches of God. Reading and sharing the similar stories from others has been very helpful. Please keep up the good work.

--"On the road to recovery" (Exiter of WCG and former member of PCG)

Comment: This letter, showing what God is doing in this exiter's life, is such an encouragement and we pray that it will help many others. Read his first two letters to ESN: Exiter of PCG Finds Comfort in ESN Site and Your Website Has Been a Major Step in Getting My Life Back.

Be Patient With Those Who Are Lost Emotionally:

December 26, 2007

I wanted to respond to the lady who wrote the letter, "Child Raised in PCG is Lost Emotionally" from October 24, 2007. She wrote about her step-daughter who is now lost emotionally after leaving the PCG. When I read that letter, I felt like she was talking about me.

I am basically going through the same experience your step daughter is. I was in WCG/PCG all my life until 2 or 3 years ago. It's so wonderful to be out, and at the same time, it takes a while to recover from having your whole world turned upside down. It's easy to see why she is "lost emotionally" and why she doesn't want to talk about it. When you've had a pseudo personality that was created in this group as a dissociative defense, it is very difficult to find your true self that you have stifled for so long. Please be patient with her. Hopefully she will read things on this website and maybe they will even help her as they helped me.

My parents, who are in the PCG, were not easy to get along with after leaving. And I, too, attempted suicide after feeling like no one in the world knew what I was going through. It's a very lonely experience when you have to heal all by yourself, but sometimes that is the best way to do it. So please, I urge you, do not give up on your step-daughter, but don't be pushy with her either. Most of all, give her love and encourage her to do the things she loves, and be with the people she loves. --Survivor of WCG and PCG

Comment: Child survivors may want to read: Am I Only A Pseudo Personality?

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